JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[AeronautIR]

I originally posted my article in Tejas thread but in case it gets removed from there, posting it here too https://diamaniumthinkers.org/iaf-t...t-or-a-manifestation-of-deep-systemic-issues/

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

... JF‑17 stays as backbone → J‑35 fills gap → KAAN partnership gives heavy punch → PFX ensures long‑term independence.

I don't understand the Pakistani obsession with the Turks?

Will sanctions prone Turkish KAAN somehow be a better option for Pakistan than China's J-35?

Don't tell me the Turks will have their own engine someday for the KAAN because is that still somehow going to make it a better aircraft than the J-35?

 

[Night Memory]

I don't understand the Pakistani obsession with the Turks?

Will sanctions prone Turkish KAAN somehow be a better option for Pakistan than China's J-35?

Don't tell me the Turks will have their own engine someday for the KAAN because is that still somehow going to make it a better aircraft than the J-35?

While your general sentiment is right, we shouldnt be obsessed with anyone. But Turkey is our second closest ally after the Chinese. Diversifying our suppliers is a smart strategy. What i see from TFX project is the workshare potential which would bring more jobs, expertise to Pakistan. J-35 is almost a finished product where we cannot add much. With TFX there is a lot of opportunity for our aerospace industry to grow. With regards to the engine, Pakistan could potentially look into/request a chinese engine config for their TFX jets.

 

[jamal18]

While your general sentiment is right, we shouldnt be obsessed with anyone. But Turkey is our second closest ally after the Chinese. Diversifying our suppliers is a smart strategy. What i see from TFX project is the workshare potential which would bring more jobs, expertise to Pakistan. J-35 is almost a finished product where we cannot add much. With TFX there is a lot of opportunity for our aerospace industry to grow. With regards to the engine, Pakistan could potentially look into/request a chinese engine config for their TFX jets.

Or even a Russian engine?

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Many defense experts believe Pakistan is gradually reshaping its long term airpower strategy. Instead of depending too heavily on Chinese imports, the country is now focusing on building real independence in its defense capabilities. ...

When Pakistan has been importing military hardware left, right and centre from China making up over 80% of it, at what point does Pakistan not become "too heavily" dependent on China?

I don't see this changing for the coming decades.

 

[studsmart]

is j35, pfx and kaan the reason why PAF is not investing a lot in j10c?

 

[Night Memory]

Or even a Russian engine?

Sure, but Russian would never sell directly to us. The engine for JF-17 is linked with russian guarantee to china and the engine is even manufactured in China. Otherwise what makes you think Indians havent already asked Russia to stop its import to us?

 

[Ak01]

looks like paf is looking for funding for faaz lol, put on the poster in the back with jf17

 

[bravo_1]

View attachment 162877looks like paf is looking for funding for faaz lol, put on the poster in the back with jf17

I think they should prioritize A2G munitions, like taimoor, rasoob etc

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

I don't understand the Pakistani obsession with the Turks?

Will sanctions prone Turkish KAAN somehow be a better option for Pakistan than China's J-35?

Don't tell me the Turks will have their own engine someday for the KAAN because is that still somehow going to make it a better aircraft than the J-35?

A wise man once told me, if you find a good doctor, a good mechanic, and a good butcher, stay loyal and never change. But defense procurement is different. Here, diversification is essential, and building our own industry matters even more.There is no obsession with Turkey. They produce quality systems, and their loan terms are reasonable. By contrast, the Chinese never give anything for free, their financing is strict and demanding. Hamare yahan koi dudh ki nahrein to bahari nahin hain jo hum cash par saman khareed lein. Everything has a cost, and the Turks remain willing partners, ready to collaborate across many projects.

As far as fighter development goes, the KAAN and the J-35 fall into different weight classes. I am hopeful that Turkey will succeed in developing its own engine, the TF35000, by around 2030, an achievement that would mark a major step toward true independence in aerospace capability.

 

[jamal18]

Sure, but Russian would never sell directly to us. The engine for JF-17 is linked with russian guarantee to china and the engine is even manufactured in China. Otherwise what makes you think Indians havent already asked Russia to stop its import to us?

Sure? I thought that the rd-33 was manufactured in Russia?

 

[Ali_Baba]

I don't understand the Pakistani obsession with the Turks?

Will sanctions prone Turkish KAAN somehow be a better option for Pakistan than China's J-35?

Don't tell me the Turks will have their own engine someday for the KAAN because is that still somehow going to make it a better aircraft than the J-35?

Pakistan's choices for fighter jets is very limited, ie only China. Türkiye is the only other option since Pakistan cannot develop its own planes, and wont be able to do so for quite some time( the PFX programme is a joke .. ). Having some level of military diversity in your fleet is useful in case a platform becomes compromised militarily.

 

[Bilal]

I originally posted my article in Tejas thread but in case it gets removed from there, posting it here too https://diamaniumthinkers.org/iaf-t...t-or-a-manifestation-of-deep-systemic-issues/

Request a OpEd on NASTP with future view (2030 and beyond) and PFX to clear out their viability or lack there of, if possible.

There is a lot of confusion on these matters and in absence of clarity a lot of speculation that these projects are already a failure.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

A wise man once told me, if you find a good doctor, a good mechanic, and a good butcher, stay loyal and never change.

We have imported more than 80% of military hardware from China and you're saying, for some reason we need to be loyal to Turkiye instead?

Why? What for?

China has fulfilled our military needs and helped us win a war.

But defense procurement is different. Here, diversification is essential, and building our own industry matters even more.

What is buying from Turkiye over China got to do with building our own industry?

We pay, we get material. Whether we choose to build the same material in-house or not is nothing to do with Turkiye or China.

There is no obsession with Turkey. They produce quality systems,

What do they have that is better than China?

Are Turkish F-16s better than Pakistani J-10Cs?

Is KAAN somehow going to be better than J-35?

and their loan terms are reasonable.

According to whom? All military deals between Pakistan and China are secret and Pakistan has imported more than 80% of its military hardware from China.

We are talking about warships, submarines, tanks, artillery, air defences, drones, fighter aircraft, helicopters, radars, air defences , missiles, satellites, just to mention a few.

What has Pakistan acquired from Turkiye?

Couple of warships, some sub systems for F-16s, drones and a lot of Muslim Brotherhood.

By contrast, the Chinese never give anything for free, their financing is strict and demanding.

You want freebies? If Chinese financing is strict, how has Pakistan ended up with more than 80% of its military hardware imported from China in such a short period of time?

.. Everything has a cost, and the Turks remain willing partners, ready to collaborate across many projects.

Very nice of them. But have the Chinese denied anything to us that Pakistan needs it from Turkiye instead?

As far as fighter development goes, the KAAN and the J-35 fall into different weight classes.

KAAN is just for Turks and Turks only.

They only started building KAAN because they were thrown out of the F-35 project.

Rest of the NATO countries are already flying F-35s, Eurofighters and Rafales, while the second largest NATO military, the Turkish Armed forces is still flying upgraded F-16s.

The Turks have no choice, have fallen behind their NATO allies, and have had to build KAAN for themselves.

If the US starts delivering F-35s, the Turks will grab them with both hands over KAAN.

KAAN is not equivalent to F-35. And, KAAN is in no way a suitable option for Pakistan. T-129 ATAK is good example of that. And Turkiye is not China.

I am hopeful that Turkey will succeed in developing its own engine, the TF35000, by around 2030, an achievement that would mark a major step toward true independence in aerospace capability.

Then what?

Pakistan has aligned it's foreign policy with China, not Turkiye and, I just don't get this Pakistani obsession with Turkiye. It's nuts.

There are so many posts on this forum that go something like, "Wow, China has mastered this super advanced technology, Pakistan should now partner with Turkiye." And, I think why?

 

[puttputt]

We have imported more than 80% of military hardware from China and you're saying, for some reason we need to be loyal to Turkiye instead?

Why? What for?

China has fulfilled our military needs and helped us win a war.


What is buying from Turkiye over China got to do with building our own industry?

We pay, we get material. Whether we choose to build the same material in-house or not is nothing to do with Turkiye or China.


What do they have that is better than China?

Are Turkish F-16s better than Pakistani J-10Cs?

Is KAAN somehow going to be better than J-35?


According to whom? All military deals between Pakistan and China are secret and Pakistan has imported more than 80% of its military hardware from China.

We are talking about warships, submarines, tanks, artillery, air defences, drones, fighter aircraft, helicopters, radars, air defences , missiles, satellites, just to mention a few.

What has Pakistan acquired from Turkiye?

Couple of warships, some sub systems for F-16s, drones and a lot of Muslim Brotherhood.


You want freebies? If Chinese financing is strict, how has Pakistan ended up with more than 80% of its military hardware imported from China in such a short period of time?


Very nice of them. But have the Chinese denied anything to us that Pakistan needs it from Turkiye instead?


KAAN is just for Turks and Turks only.

They only started building KAAN because they were thrown out of the F-35 project.

Rest of the NATO countries are already flying F-35s, Eurofighters and Rafales, while the second largest NATO military, the Turkish Armed forces is still flying upgraded F-16s.

The Turks have no choice, have fallen behind their NATO allies, and have had to build KAAN for themselves.

If the US starts delivering F-35s, the Turks will grab them with both hands over KAAN.

KAAN is not equivalent to F-35. And, KAAN is in no way a suitable option for Pakistan. T-129 ATAK is good example of that. And Turkiye is not China.


Then what?

Pakistan has aligned it's foreign policy with China, not Turkiye and, I just don't get this Pakistani obsession with Turkiye. It's nuts.

There are so many posts on this forum that go something like, "Wow, China has mastered this super advanced technology, Pakistan should now partner with Turkiye." And, I think why?

There was a guy like you in 1959 telling the armed forces to go all in on the US because they provided weapons at $0.