Pakistan-India Conflict 2025: News Updates and Discussion

[AeronautIR]

That is my assessment too. It is narrower with no approach lights. It can definitely be used but not to the extent of normal take offs and landings. There are likely to be penalties.

What if more missiles were launched to truly degrade the runways then, that is likely to be have serious operational constraints.

I have answered second point below but about the first point, I gave a personal example of landing on parallel due to main runway blocked by an aircraft with hydraulic failure emergency.

Our audit teams check the readiness by giving this contingency often where main runway is destroyed and you have to activate parallel operations. It is not simply a taxi track but an official secondary runway which is there for any such eventuality.

Whole base can take off or land from there, though I agree about the slight delay because you can't line up multiple aircraft.

 

[falcon34]

Let me try to find that photo.

You have misunderstood me about other point. If you are targeting Sargodha, you can stay well within India. If you have to target Peshawar, you have to come another 150km forward inside India and that means far higher risk.

Now we are going to if and hypothetical, so let's assume all 3 surfaces of Sargodha were damaged. It can only be achieved by ALCMs because accuracy of Surface launched Brahmos was not same. For 8-10 craters, with 80% interception rate, you need both Su-30 squadrons that are Brahmos capable.

So unless IAF upgrades all Su-30s in future, for now the worst they can do in a surprise attack is just take out 1 base with pinpoint accuracy.

If that complete surprise is achieved somehow, it is over now. The question is: can PAF get airborne 42 hi-tech aircraft before another strike? Answer is, absolutely.

Now we can talk about Pakistani response which was restrained this time, but the cruise missiles are available with us too. So let's not go into that hypothetical scenario.

This war-gaming has been done with all scenarios since May and current capability is not enough to take out a significant portion of PAF out of action.

PS: Sargodha is F-16 base and unless they get upgraded, they are not our front line fighters now. J-10C / JF-17 blk 3 base didn't get a single hit, but again, it's a separate debate.

What other were weapons were used by PAF other than CM400akgs.
This is what I've from people obviously you would know better and that is a total of 3 places were struck, Adampur, Bhuj and Barnala all were CM400akgs missions.
PAF didn't any other bombing mission than these three.
Only Adampur was partial success, I had my hopes on bhuj and Barnala but from what I've been told, There were misses.
Any truth to this

 

[falcon34]

I have answered second point below but about the first point, I gave a personal example of landing on parallel due to main runway blocked by an aircraft with hydraulic failure emergency.

Our audit teams check the readiness by giving this contingency often where main runway is destroyed and you have to activate parallel operations. It is not simply a taxi track but an official secondary runway which is there for any such eventuality.

Whole base can take off or land from there, though I agree about the slight delay because you can't line up multiple aircraft.

With all due respect I don't think you should have talked about this on the forum let them think otherwise why answer this.

 

[rafale]

I think to have a reasonable discussion on Deterrence, it has to be operationally defined for the context of the discussion. The back and forth b/w the members has been because of their individual take on what deterrence mean. One side is taking it as an "absolute military superiority" (where India can never launch a strike at us) while the other side is taking it as an "attrition penalty" (where India can launch a strike but can't establish operational advantage).



IMPO (and admittedly a narrow one) - India probably thought their platform superiority (Rafale and S-400) gave them sufficient operational advantage to pick a conflict with Pakistan and continue to maintain operational advantage. It is evident from their tactics post May 7 (esp night of May 9/10) how they didn't have a contingency plan once their platform dependent bubble bursted. In an ideal timeline, India wouldn't have felt the need to use CMs (that was their last tier of weapons system below a nuclear threshold and a full-scale war).

The bolded part of you comment is the actual situation.

India was desperate to have "Save face"......and that's when they resorted to throwing everything at Pakistan to get a hit on airbases (which btw the shit kumars think 'destroyed the airbases completely') while no one mentions the total number of ALCM/SLCM and other SOWs that India launched and how many actually scored a hit, and out of those how many actual scored a hit of any real value in terms of the larger Air Operations of PAF? The answer is that the percentage would be in low single digits. Not at all a good number regardless of it being a short war.

Also, the off-ramp for de-escalation included Pakistan not displaying any BDA what so ever of its impact on India to let their hate filled awaam gasp on the damaged hangers aerial pictures and let it go.

Lets see what we get out of it, we successfully tracked each and every one of their SOWs, right?

We took of most of them out via soft or hard kills, right?

So pretty much we know how to plug the gaps now and above all, exact radar tracking ability, warning times, RCS so much data etc. They actually showed their Aces when simple Kings/Queens could have sufficed to win the round.

Also, even this time they thought that issuing NOTAMs before the 7th May would confuse PAF, yet PAF tracked each and every one of their aircraft when it got airborne. Next time we have intelligence that they are preparing, rest assured we will have on the ground intel, we know the only trick they have........and prepare for CMs barrage because zero chance in hell or earth that they will risk flying even within 200km of the IB. But then that makes their targeting and navigation of CMs difficult as well over a longer range firing and allows you ample time/warning time.

What Pakistan needs is more quantity of IADS.........and the good part is we need to cover the eastern flanks only.......we already have systems that work, that our people are trained on, that worked in actual combat situation, you simply purchase and integrate more of them.

meanwhile what does IAF has to show for it? Purchase more Rafales? Or more ALCM/SLCMs? Heck, show me one kill they got from the over hyped S-400? Their operators have no idea how to work in a networked environment.....2019 own fratricide is a perfect example of this.

Their M2Ks and Mig 29s and Rafales are no where networked with their IADS........

But this is all weapons and tactics.

Another deterrence was and proven that still is valid today is that of diplomacy. India was pressured by the world to stop. As much as they claim themselves to not be dictated by anyone, no, they are no where near that independent adventurism yet. They had to listen to the world and consider de escalating.

Imagine China went to 4 day war with India........you suppose they will listen to anyone to stop? Nope. But India ain't even a tenth of the super power they claim and make it ought to be.

 

[AeronautIR]

Saragoda airbase flight operations were taken out for some hours while the runway was being repaired. There is no way around that, and militarily, it was a significant achievement by the IAF on that night ( alongside some damage on a AEW&C).

I don't buy the suggestion that you can use the slip way that runs parallel to the runway because it is too narrow and also because the surface of the slipway is not contiguous/compromised as indicated in red on the screen shot below where it is not a uniform surface.

View attachment 167364

There is enough area for a proper parallel runway to be added as I have shown in orange( I am sure someone can come up with a better more resilient design and looking at the land around the airbase, there is plenty of land that can be used it seems), but something does need to be done to make the most important airbase in the PAF more secure in its operations and not be taken out again like it was. The cost of a new runway may well be just the cost of a fighter aircraft, or two given how much infrastructure already exists.

Given the location of the airbase itself in a heavily populated area, the chances of a SHORAD being able to successfully defend against cruise missile is limited due the the clutter effect of buildings which will affect the performance of the SHORAD itself. Physical resilience has to be addressed in addition to new systems.

( i know side-winder has suggested that the slipway could be used, but I truly don't buy it as the slipway is not wide enough for operations that happen at speed with any level of margin for operating at those speeds ).

It is not something that is there for taxi and we may be able to use it or not. It is a proper runway and we have to show that a base can operate without its main runway, POL depot, mess, etc.

The audit teams are far more deadly than Indians. They just plant a flag anywhere and tell us this place is destroyed. If you are unable to launch and recover from Parallel, you fail the test with serious repercussions for all.

So it is not that we are hoping for its use. I have landed myself on it in 2011. And I am sure IAF and other air forces also have same contingency plans for continuity of operations.

 

[rafale]

If spice was spoofed and alan warnes article claims Indians used spice on nur khan raid why was that unable to be stopped. Surely nur khan has sizable kinetic and non kinetic kill mechanisms right?

not every weapon spoofing was successful. That's the lesson to take from it and i am 100% sure PAF will learn from it.

Please quote the total number of SOWs India launched.
Then, how many actually scored a hit?
and how many of those that scored a hit actually caused significant damage to cause your air operations to be stopped?

 

[AeronautIR]

With all due respect I don't think you should have talked about this on the forum let them think otherwise why answer this.

If it was even slightly classified, I would have not even hinted about it. I am actually astonished that people don't know this. You can even just Google it.

 

[AeronautIR]

What other were weapons were used by PAF other than CM400akgs.
This is what I've from people obviously you would know better and that is a total of 3 places were struck, Adampur, Bhuj and Barnala all were CM400akgs missions.
PAF didn't any other bombing mission than these three.
Only Adampur was partial success, I had my hopes on bhuj and Barnala but from what I've been told, There were misses.
Any truth to this

Now, I am seriously confused mate. This question is far more serious than my above reply about parallel runway operations.
So, should I reply to you or not on this forum?

 

[rafale]

There are two cross runways at Sargodha and the longer one is 10000’ long. There were two craters on the runway. One at the intersection and another further down. The distance between these craters is 4600’. That doesn’t leave 9000’ of runway length of operations a mentioned by you. The other runway is shorter and didn’t seem to have adequate length free of take offs.

Secondary parallel runway was intact but number of aircraft that can get airborne and land is likely to be degraded on that on. It doesn’t seem to have any lighting etc.

Damage to the runway wasn’t a great disabler though due to rapid repair plans likely to be in place.

Had it been a bigger attack and more damage caused to the runway then few hours of runway not available can severely impact operations. To my understanding that kind of attack wasn’t launched. It was a calibrated attack to cause limited damage and display the capability to strike accurately.

. View attachment 167354View attachment 167355

This limited attack was carried out is your bullshit copium on the same scale as Rafales were restricted due to ROE to not use Meteors, when in reality, Meteors would have made barely a difference.......and no we know that French pretty much played India by no integrating them fully on your Rafales.

Please quote the actual total SOWs india launched?

As debunked by many here, operations were only partially suspended, not aborted or affected at any time. Majority of your SOW were intercepted, both soft and hard kills.

 

[maxpane]

If it was even slightly classified, I would have not even hinted about it. I am actually astonished that people don't know this. You can even just Google it.

just watching your video when host ask some questionwhich could be clasified you dodge the bullet beautifully while also engaging the question

 

[AeronautIR]

just watching your video when host ask some questionwhich could be clasified you dodge the bullet beautifully while also engaging the question

Thank you for your kind words.

 

[falcon34]

Now, I am seriously confused mate. This question is far more serious than my above reply about parallel runway operations.
So, should I reply to you or not on this forum?

The unclassified ones obviously, I was actually referring to why waren't those Takbeer kits not used, they would have created huge craters.

 

[AeronautIR]

The unclassified ones obviously, I was actually referring to why waren't those Takbeer kits not used, they would have created huge craters.

I don't talk about anything classified but people sometimes think I am spilling secrets. I have an open source for all my replies.

Regarding Takbir and REK, it has limited range than cruise missiles, so it is much riskier.

 

[side-winder]

I don't buy the suggestion that you can use the slip way that runs parallel to the runway because it is too narrow and also because the surface of the slipway is not contiguous/compromised as indicated in red on the screen shot below where it is not a uniform surface.

Bro, how do you consider width of 65-70 Feet insufficient for landings / take offs?

I have seen landings on parallel strips. The ILS system supports landings on both strips. @HemlockKhalid/AeronautIR has actually landed his plane on parallel.

Heck, they even have the markings of a proper runway. Example here of sargodha (32 L and 32 R).


Here is Jacobabad (15 L & 15 R)



Hope it now removes the doubt.

 

[falcon34]

I don't talk about anything classified but people sometimes think I am spilling secrets. I have an open source for all my replies.

Regarding Takbir and REK, it has limited range than cruise missiles, so it is much riskier.

If it's not classified info, how many targets were hit by PAF and where to actually look, I've went over sat images of pathankot, Bathinda, awantipora, Sirinagar and barnala IACCS, even looked up the supply depot of Chandigarh that was claimed to be hit.
Tbh I've given up, all my hopes are on @Panzerkiel thread that's he gonna post on 7 may 2026 as promised by him.