IWT.

[Waz]

o-ok..

v-very scary mr waz..

unfortunately,

IWT will still be in abeyance and you will have 20-30% less water in the Chenab. You will have to make do

Why do you quote me, if I am not scary?
Sit tight for the ride your major rivers will run dry, and like your foreign minister 'laser eyes' begged for rare earth metals he will beg China for water. You will soon be made to come to your senses.

China’s new dam in western Tibet raises yet another strategic concern in India - Tibetan Review

(TibetanReview.net, Jan20’23) – China is building a new dam in remote western Tibet over a tributary of what becomes the Ganga in downstream India, satellite images have been cited as showing. Given the state of Sino-India relations today, and China’s furious building of infrastructure...

www.tibetanreview.net

 

[Master Chief]

IWT is a failed treaty.

India was beyond generous in allocating waters from Indus river water system to Pakistan.

Approximately 80 percent of all waters of Indus water system were allocated to Pakistan. In the hopes that this would allay Pakistan's fears of India cutting of Pakistani water from kashmir and removing the need for them to go to war over Kashmir.

No other country in world has singed such a generous water sharing treaty with another and much less with a country that considers the former as it's mortal enemy.

Rather than pacifying the Pakistanis. This treaty rather emboldened them. Thinking Indians weak they launched a war on india within 5 years of signing this treaty.

This treaty should have been aboragated then and there itself.

India and Pakistan have fought 3 wars since the signing of this treaty and India has suffered 40 years of Pakistani sponsored terrorism in Kashmir since then.

Clearly Saam and Daam has not worked in persuading Pakistanis . It is time for Dand and Bhed.

Indus Waters Treaty referred to 3 western rivers and 3 eastern.

Once again, for the benefit of those of you who remain intentionally illiterate for your whole lives:

Ravi, Beas, Sutlej are the 3 eastern rivers, whose control AND distribution remain entirely under Indian control.

The 3 western rivers' source control IS STILL under India, while their lower riparian distribution is under Pakistani jurisdiction.

This arrangement is NOT in favour of Pakistan. On the contrary, it is in favour of India. We have seen Indian manipulations of the 3 western rivers PRIOR to this imagined "abeyance" state, which illustrates the above perfectly well.

Once again: the IWT was always in favour of India, and yes, we should have renegotiated it to give us more complete control over the 3 western rivers.

BEYOND THE IWT ITSELF, there are UN resolutions, which India is signatory to, that protect riparian rights and natural water resources even during conflict.

The gesticulating and frothing at the mouth of Indians posting here at the thought of Pakistani civilians suffering hardship from Indian appropriation of natural resources is vile, though not surprising.

@Waz honestly mate, I rarely address mods directly as I know how busy you are, but simple propaganda and misinformation from Indians like @Jaeger and @nibba should not be tolerated.

 

[RAJPUT]

be serious. committing suicide by nuke solves nothing.

you can live with less water. prepare well and it will all be fine. if not it will be a humanitarian disaster.

Well, you don’t need to worry about it then. Right? Let us deal with it how WE wanna deal with it, if and when it becomes a nuisance.

 

[Jaeger]

Indus Waters Treaty referred to 3 western rivers and 3 eastern.

Once again, for the benefit of those of you who remain intentionally illiterate for your whole lives:

Ravi, Beas, Sutlej are the 3 eastern rivers, whose control AND distribution remain entirely under Indian control.

The 3 western rivers' source control IS STILL under India, while their lower riparian distribution is under Pakistani jurisdiction.

This arrangement is NOT in favour of Pakistan. On the contrary, it is in favour of India. We have seen Indian manipulations of the 3 western rivers PRIOR to this imagined "abeyance" state, which illustrates the above perfectly well.

Once again: the IWT was always in favour of India, and yes, we should have renegotiated it to give us more complete control over the 3 western rivers.

BEYOND THE IWT ITSELF, there are UN resolutions, which India is signatory to, that protect riparian rights and natural water resources even during conflict.

The gesticulating and frothing at the mouth of Indians posting here at the thought of Pakistani civilians suffering hardship from Indian appropriation of natural resources is vile, though not surprising.

@Waz honestly mate, I rarely address mods directly as I know how busy you are, but simple propaganda and misinformation from Indians like @Jaeger and @nibba should not be tolerated.

Any water sharing treaty by its very nature itself only favours the lower riparian state.

Because it's put restrictions on use of water on upper rippaerean.

It puts responsibility data sharing on the upper rippaerean.

The upper rippaerean needs to get approval from the lower rippaerean to build any dams or canals or any other projects on its rivers.

It places external monitoring agencies to monitor the use of water by upper rippaerean.

There are no such restrictions placed on lower rippaerean.

Indus water treaty even more lopsided that it awards 80 percent of water of Indus river water system to Pakistan.

And if you are so sure that IWT is India's favour then it great news for you that the treaty is in abeyance. Lets aboragate the treaty itself.

And we can fall back to those "water sharing UN clauses" that you mentioned ??

 

[nibba]

Why do you quote me, if I am not scary?
Sit tight for the ride your major rivers will run dry, and like your foreign minister 'laser eyes' begged for rare earth metals he will beg China for water. You will soon be made to come to your senses.

View attachment 169577

China’s new dam in western Tibet raises yet another strategic concern in India - Tibetan Review

(TibetanReview.net, Jan20’23) – China is building a new dam in remote western Tibet over a tributary of what becomes the Ganga in downstream India, satellite images have been cited as showing. Given the state of Sino-India relations today, and China’s furious building of infrastructure...

www.tibetanreview.net

I quote because you are funny

I think you would need to do more than build a dam noone has heard of on a tributary no one has heard of to disrupt the ganges

Well, you don’t need to worry about it then. Right? Let us deal with it how WE wanna deal with it, if and when it becomes a nuisance.

Well it will be an annoying and unnecessary disruption you don't prepare

This role playing where you are going to use nukes or China is going to do this or that is simply not going to happen

What is going to happen is that chenab flows are going to change

So build your own dams

Switch from super water intensive crops like sugar cane

Share water better between states (i heard punjab is being very naughty with the flows into sindh)


Etc.

 

[Master Chief]

Any water sharing treaty by its very nature itself only favours the lower riparian state.

Because it's put restrictions on use of water on upper rippaerean.

It puts responsibility data sharing on the upper rippaerean.

The upper rippaerean needs to get approval from the lower rippaerean to build any dams or canals or any other projects on its rivers.

It places external monitoring agencies to monitor the use of water by upper rippaerean.

There are no such restrictions placed on lower rippaerean.

Indus water treaty even more lopsided that it awards 80 percent of water of Indus river water system to Pakistan.

And if you are so sure that IWT is India's favour then it great news for you that the treaty is in abeyance. Lets aboragate the treaty itself.

And we can fall back to those "water sharing UN clauses" that you mentioned ??

You're some sort of quasi-hydrologist now?

Have you ever even looked at a map of the 6 rivers in question?



The problem for hindustanis is that the fundamental illiteracy that you mutually thrive off within your whatsapp groups will never be sufficient to convince the discerning viewer of your propaganda.

The MAJORITY SHARE of the river basins of the Indus AND all of its tributaries remains in Pakistani territory.

This means that rivers which happen to originate in Indian controlled territories mostly feed Pakistani civilians. India's share of the basin is SECOND, 15-20% less than Pakistan's.

You don't get to commandeer natural features just because the source is on territory controlled by you.

The IWT already gives you more than the entitlement you should be alloted based on actual geography.

The relevant UN resolutions instruct wartime conduct. I posted them earlier in the thread. Feel free to review at your convenience.

 

[Jaeger]

You're some sort of quasi-hydrologist now?

Have you ever even looked at a map of the 6 rivers in question?

View attachment 169648

The problem for hindustanis is that the fundamental illiteracy that you mutually thrive off within your whatsapp groups will never be sufficient to convince the discerning viewer of your propaganda.

The MAJORITY SHARE of the river basins of the Indus AND all of its tributaries remains in Pakistani territory.

This means that rivers which happen to originate in Indian controlled territories mostly feed Pakistani civilians. India's share of the basin is SECOND, 15-20% less than Pakistan's.

You don't get to commandeer natural features just because the source is on territory controlled by you.

The IWT already gives you more than the entitlement you should be alloted based on actual geography.

The relevant UN resolutions instruct wartime conduct. I posted them earlier in the thread. Feel free to review at your convenience.

I am not interested any pseudo scientific education on hydrology and international relation from a kid on the internet.

However I am interested in your claim that IWT is in India's favor. If you believe that IWT treaty is India's favor, then lets just abrogate this treaty with mutual consent and then we can fall block on all those UN treaties, that protect your rights as a lower riparian.

What say ?

 

[Waz]

I quote because you are funny

I think you would need to do more than build a dam noone has heard of on a tributary no one has heard of to disrupt the ganges

Your laughter is a sign of nerves, and your insecurity shows, hence you quoting me.
Yes the experts are all wrong and your sanghi whatsapp group is right. When you can learn to read, look at the link I posted.
Your nation wants to be play water boss when it comes from China haha.

 

[Vikramaditya1]

The IWT already gives you more than the entitlement you should be alloted based on actual geography.

Bullshit. India holds nearly 39% of the Indus basin's land area but receives only 20% of its water. This is rare for an upper riparian state, which usually retains greater control over the headwaters. Statistically speaking we should be getting at least 50% of the water given we are the upper riparian state. Kashmiris are in favour of scrapping the treaty because it gives them greater control of the water and allows storage for dry seasons.

You also unnecessarily raise objections and delay projects like Kishanganga, litigating it to delay the project only to lose the case in the end causing us cost overruns. This is why India is using this abeyance to finish other run off river projects.

Not to mention India paid around 1.5 billion in today's money to world Bank so that you can fund dams to store water Indus and jhelum hydropower project and storage. What did we get in return? Three wars and our own hp projects getting stuck in litigation.
There is no need for any negotiations with Pak imo. You love to negotiate for a week to fight the next week.

 

[Master Chief]

I am not interested any pseudo scientific education on hydrology and international relation from a kid on the internet.

However I am interested in your claim that IWT is in India's favor. If you believe that IWT treaty is India's favor, then lets just abrogate this treaty with mutual consent and then we can fall block on all those UN treaties, that protect your rights as a lower riparian.

What say ?

Yes the IWT is very much in your favour and additional safeguards require negotiating for Pakistan (not least the need to stop rampant sanghees from storing and releasing water without notifcation thus causing downstream agricultural harm), not additional riparian usage for India. So of course, if Delhi is willing to rewrite it along these lines, then please do so. But why come here and make everyone laugh by pretending any such offer would be forthcoming? Whose time time do you seek to waste?

I have already explained to you that the UN Convention on international watercourse usage from 1997 is most certainly applicable. Have a read of articles 5-10 in particular, but frankly, all of it is relevant.

Despite your ululations to the contrary, Pakistan is amd always has been the majority river basin utiliser of the Indus and its tributaries, on the basis of simple scientific fact.

Maybe you would like lo-res satellite imagery?

The point being made is that the suspension of Indian responsibilities under the IWT are not merely the unilateral reneging on a treaty (for which said treaty makes no provision

Arbitration court rules India can't unilaterally suspend Indus Waters Treaty with Pakistan - TRT World

Pakistan welcomes ruling of Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, saying it confirms New Delhi cannot strip arbitration court or neutral expert of their ability to decide such disputes.

www.trtworld.com

), but also represents breach of your obligations under the relevant UN convention (described above and earlier in the thread).

What is it that you still do not understand?

 

[Master Chief]

Bullshit. India holds nearly 39% of the Indus basin's land area but receives only 20% of its water.

Yes Einstein, the Himalayan source region is of little agricultural value. That is why the IWT always permitted the use of these rivers for Indian hydro-electricity but not for additional resource capture (and even worse, for uninformed storage and release).

There is no point denying that Delhi has decided to weaponise water flow and hydrology data withholding to harm Pakistani civilians. There is no other explanation for the witholding of data other than to make it impossible for us to predict water flow changes.

This is quite independent from the presently instututed threatened theft of actual water volume.

You can squeal "bullshit" if you wish but you are only covering yourself in it.

 

[Jaeger]

Yes the IWT is very much in your favour and additional safeguards require negotiating for Pakistan (not least the need to stop rampant sanghees from storing and releasing water without notifcation thus causing downstream agricultural harm), not additional riparian usage for India. So of course, if Delhi is willing to rewrite it along these lines, then please do so. But why come here and make everyone laugh by pretending any such offer would be forthcoming? Whose time time do you seek to waste?

I have already explained to you that the UN Convention on international watercourse usage from 1997 is most certainly applicable. Have a read of articles 5-10 in particular, but frankly, all of it is relevant.

Despite your ululations to the contrary, Pakistan is amd always has been the majority river basin utiliser of the Indus and its tributaries, on the basis of simple scientific fact.

Maybe you would like lo-res satellite imagery?

The point being made is that the suspension of Indian responsibilities under the IWT are not merely the unilateral reneging on a treaty (for which said treaty makes no provision

Arbitration court rules India can't unilaterally suspend Indus Waters Treaty with Pakistan - TRT World

Pakistan welcomes ruling of Permanent Court of Arbitration in The Hague, saying it confirms New Delhi cannot strip arbitration court or neutral expert of their ability to decide such disputes.

www.trtworld.com

), but also represents breach of your obligations under the relevant UN convention (described above and earlier in the thread).

What is it that you still do not understand?

No amount obstufucation will change the fact that IWT only benefits Pakistan.

It is very simple question which you won't be able to answer because you are lying and you know that you are lying.

If IWT is India's favour. Lets aborogate this treaty ???

 

[Master Chief]

No amount obstufucation will change the fact that IWT only benefits Pakistan.

It is very simple question which you won't be able to answer because you are lying and you know that you are lying.

If IWT is India's favour. Lets aborogate this treaty ???

No idea what "obstufucation" or "aborogate" mean. Are these trendy hinglish words that can only be understood if I bobble my head?

I already said, yes, let's have a new treaty in line with the UN convention's stipulations, or simply just try to adhere to the convention!

Have you actually read it yet though?

Start with Art 6 and 7, but read all of it when you have a chance, then let me know if India is even willing to adhere to it:

"Article 6
Factors relevant to equitable and reasonable utilization
1.Utilization of an international watercourse in an equitable and reasonable manner within the
meaning of article 5 requires taking into account all relevant factors and circumstances, including:
(a) Geographic, hydrographic, hydrological, climatic, ecological and other factors of a natural
character;
(b) The social and economic needs of the watercourse States concerned;
(c) The population dependent on the watercourse in each watercourse State;
(d) The effects of the use or uses of the watercourses in one watercourse State on other watercourse
States;
(e) Existing and potential uses of the watercourse;
(f) Conservation, protection, development and economy of use of the water resources of the
watercourse and the costs of measures taken to that effect;
(g) The availability of alternatives, of comparable value, to a particular planned or existing use.
2.In the application of article 5 or paragraph 1 of this article, watercourse States concerned shall,
when the need arises, enter into consultations in a spirit of cooperation.
3.The weight to be given to each factor is to be determined by its importance in comparison with
that of other relevant factors. In determining what is a reasonable and equitable use , all relevant factors
are to be considered together and a conclusion reached on the basis of the whole.
Article 7
Obligation not to cause significant harm
1.Watercourse States shall, in utilizing an international watercourse in their territories, take all
appropriate measures to prevent the causing of significant harm to other watercourse States.
2.Where significant harm nevertheless is caused to another watercourse State, the States whose
use causes such harm shall, in the absence of agreement to such use, take all appropriate measures,
having due regard for the provisions of articles 5 and 6, in consultation with the affected State, to
eliminate or mitigate such harm and, where appropriate, to discuss the question of compensation."

That's a lot of stuff that Hindustan cannot and/or will not deliver on.

 

[nibba]

Your laughter is a sign of nerves, and your insecurity shows, hence you quoting me.
Yes the experts are all wrong and your sanghi whatsapp group is right. When you can learn to read, look at the link I posted.
Your nation wants to be play water boss when it comes from China haha.

>experts
>1 article 2 years ago about a dam on a tributary of a tributary

this is what you are talking about LOL



Between this daming Sutlej (which would be bad for you lol) and daming bramhaputra to devastate bangladesh. I think India has considered the possible scenarios and has opted to go ahead with the construction on the Chennab.

Our nation is your water boss, sorry brother.

I really dont think its that big of a deal for pakistan if you prepare well

What we are saying is completely reasonable

but you must prepare now instead of making fantasy stories up

 

[Waz]

>experts
>1 article 2 years ago about a dam on a tributary of a tributary

this is what you are talking about LOL

View attachment 169764

Between this daming Sutlej (which would be bad for you lol) and daming bramhaputra to devastate bangladesh. I think India has considered the possible scenarios and has opted to go ahead with the construction on the Chennab.

Our nation is your water boss, sorry brother.

I really dont think its that big of a deal for pakistan if you prepare well

What we are saying is completely reasonable

but you must prepare now instead of making fantasy stories up

They're damming both major tributaries homie, and that may take a little while but they are well on their way. Good to see you find it funny.


The Sutlej means little to us, that's a river for your Punjab region, a bread basket, and you use it extensively for agriculture. If you knew anything you would have known that For much of the year, the Sutlej runs nearly dry within Pakistan's territory.

Your government is just hoping that China will play ball but they've made it clear they won't be. Modi and co are too stupid to think ahead, look at how your ministers went begging for rare earth metals, your commentators said the same thing back then.

Your nation's water father is China.
You should be more confident but you keep on quoting me. My words are just fantasy right? But you keep coming back. Insecurity son.

Here you go more fantasies

Concerns have emerged regarding the water India receives from China. Dr. V. Nityananda has suggested that China may be discreetly obstructing the flow of the Sutlej River into Indian territory. It is important to note that the Indus Waters Treaty governs the distribution of rivers between India and Pakistan.

In an explosive statement, Dr. V. Nityananda has claimed that in past years, the volume of water flowing into India from the Sutlej River has dropped by over 75 percent. The amount of water coming to India through the Sutlej has dipped from 8,000 gigalitres to just 2,000 gigalitres. Sharing this data, he questioned whether China is deliberately controlling the flow of water into India.

China blocking India's water? Sutlej River flow drops by..., Satellite Data makes major revelation, says...

Dr. V. Nityananda has claimed that in past years, the volume of water flowing into India from the Sutlej River has dropped by over 75 percent. The amount of water coming to India through the Sutlej has dipped from 8,000 gigalitres to just 2,000 gigalitres.

www.india.com

Bhai they need to send you to negotiate, laser eyes is a pure pudda, why is he letting Chinese do this? Sad no?