PAF Conducts Successful Test Launch of Taimoor ALCM

[hasssanali8998]

Understandable, Indians would like to stick to lobbing Brahmos and then absorb the PAF counter attack with a thorough AD, for as many days as possible.

then fix it , hate the game not the player , we would have done the same .

 

[hasssanali8998]

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this is the way to go thousands of these and few hundreds of Taimoor's

 

[Vkdindian1]

View attachment 169835
this is what i was thinking ( i know its overly simple but just an example ) , its strongest benefit is waypoint stuff , that can help it to avoid the densest ADs and only compete with SHORADs or less ADs systems hence increasing its chances of hitting . as you can see it opens up many possibilities , and yes this is problem for us too with SCALP ( assuming SCALP has the same stuff) now both of us have the same problem

Terminal AD is a major focus area of bolstering by Indian forces. I don’t know how would they work against such missiles.

Understandable, Indians would like to stick to lobbing Brahmos and then absorb the PAF counter attack with a thorough AD, for as many days as possible

Both sides would have done wargaming with these scenarios. Who comes out on top, is only a guess as of now.

From AD perspective and wider types of missiles, India has better mix at this time.

 

[hasssanali8998]

View attachment 169835
this is what i was thinking ( i know its overly simple but just an example ) , its strongest benefit is waypoint stuff , that can help it to avoid the densest ADs and only compete with SHORADs or less ADs systems hence increasing its chances of hitting . as you can see it opens up many possibilities , and yes this is problem for us too with SCALP ( assuming SCALP has the same stuff) now both of us have the same problem

also i hope in future , when we have jet capable of carrying it we get a an ER version like what happened with jassm , that would allow us to do more zig zagging .

 

[hasssanali8998]

From AD perspective and wider types of missiles, I

oh yeah hudred percent , i don't know why were sleeping on stuff like this like the Russians .

 

[PakAl]

This is not part of this discussion. These Indian missiles did real damage on our side just because of their hypersonic speed. It's hard to intercept. Subsonic systems are easy to intercept but currently, there is lots of improvements going on in other systems like scalp. Clearly this missile is not scalp. In a future war which is quite near, India will fire more than 200 brahmos. Can we reply in the same manner? For this, we need similar systems like brahmos. We don't have any such system. This is reality. You can use this new missile with all the new ai involved. Can it still make it to the desired target? I doubt it. India now makes interceptors. Pakistan needs hypersonic missiles. That's it. People are giving examples of scalp. This is not scalp. You can see in the video that it missed the target. I doubt that India will allow it to travel 100 km inside their territory.this is my point.

Plus the costs, will Pakistan be producing 1000s of cruise missiles, can we afford them, hypersonic are more expensive, this is why Pakistan used fatah 3, we can fire more of them but ofcourse detection is the issue.

 

[hasssanali8998]

jet

tbh u could get c130 or other transport aircraft to carry this , and in c130 case i remember we did that in 65 because we didn't have enough bombers

 

[RAMPAGE]

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I don't think such a turbojet-powered REK is operational anywhere in the world.

 

[Bilal]

I don't think such a turbojet-powered REK is operational anywhere in the world.

US had a similar concept, powered JDAM. Program didn’t move forward I think.

 

[hasssanali8998]

I don't think such a turbojet-powered REK is operational anywhere in the world.

Jet-Powered JDAM Aims To Turn Bombs Into Cruise Missiles

Powered JDAMs could attack targets on land and sea, deploy naval mines, or even act as decoys, over long ranges.

www.twz.com

boeing has plans for it seems we are on a right track , now lets hope we also have plans to shoot them down ( should be easy because of heat signature ) because India WILL copy it

 

[Princeps]

US had a similar concept, powered JDAM. Program didn’t move forward I think.

Because Imo it's not a good idea. If you are using a Turbojet you might as well make a cruise missile, which will be far more survivable.

"The US Navy eventually scrapped plans to develop the JSOW-ER in its FY2022 budget, instead opting to procure a variant of Lockheed Martin's AGM-158B Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile Extended Range (JASSM-ER) cruise missile to meet both its strike and offensive anti-surface warfare (OASuW) requirements."

 

[hussain0216]

In a subsonic missile , 4km is enough. For a supersonic missile, like Brahmos, one little error or a second of jamming throws it off target by a mile. thats why so many Brahmos were found in the fields and ditches. The few which did find the targets , also skimmed, not actually hit. As evident by the pictures the Indians keep posting.
Because PAF was actively jamming, and by the time the software kicks in the error correction, the missile is flying too fast to fully utilize it.

To PAF credit, they even jammed one of the world's most advanced cruise missile, the Storm Shadow, On a side note its made in Bolton England., so same way as India complains. Pakistan should complain to England .
Thats why Storm shadow was found fully intact in a field. That missile has all the anti jammig and course correction features, but still missed the target by quite a margine.

All those bits and bobs of storm shadows and brahmos are going to be a wealth of information

 

[hasssanali8998]

Because Imo it's not a good idea. If you are using a Turbojet you might as well make a cruise missile, which will be far more survivable.

"The US Navy eventually scrapped plans to develop the JSOW-ER in its FY2022 budget, instead opting to procure a variant of Lockheed Martin's AGM-158B Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile Extended Range (JASSM-ER) cruise missile to meet both its strike and offensive anti-surface warfare (OASuW) requirements."

they can cost like 7 mills , best strategy is TJs for mass volley and few Taimoors for hvts for us it ok bcs they can afford us bot not for us

 

[Ali_Baba]

Perhaps. However, for the kinds of targets I envision for Taimoor I'd think 10 units are more than enough. There is the Azb series as well, which can be produced quite rapidly. It is quite interesting that in BuM Fatah-1s were launched but no Azbs (swift retort had Azbs). PAF was afraid of losing jets? prepares for hate lol.

I would be very surprised if they built only 10 units? A lot of work for very little return if the production run is that small. For this class of missile a production run of 200 would make more sense would it not given the size of the Indian IADS they will face when trying to destroy a given target. A ratio of a few missiles per high value target.

Given the design is local and not made for profit and some components will be sourced externally and other locally, it should not be that expensive a missile compared to the off the shelf purchase of something like a storm shadow where a lot of profit has to be baked into.

 

[Bilal]

Because Imo it's not a good idea. If you are using a Turbojet you might as well make a cruise missile, which will be far more survivable.

"The US Navy eventually scrapped plans to develop the JSOW-ER in its FY2022 budget, instead opting to procure a variant of Lockheed Martin's AGM-158B Joint Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile Extended Range (JASSM-ER) cruise missile to meet both its strike and offensive anti-surface warfare (OASuW) requirements."

Or maybe like other program, you start with a simple idea and then scope creep makes it complicated and expensive and kills the initial selling point.

We have seen the same leading to cancellations all across the spectrum of the US military programs. From ships, to armoured vehicles, to PGMs, Helicopters, artillery. You name it.

If you are willing to make those trade offs and leaving super complicated capabilities to more expensive specialized systems. Then it’s a very feasible solution. I mean slapping on a small UAV/LM TJ on an already functioning REK (I know I am over simplifying) and taking range and “some” maneuverability advantage at fraction of the cost. And not asking to to have full capability of everything an expensive cruise missile can do.

Having said that, I am not aware of PJDAM status. I just made a reckless comment on it not moving forward.

P. S.: also US has deep pockets. They can literally decide “nah we will go for thousands of multi million dollar cruise missiles instead”.