Al - Haider VT-4 MBT - The Premier PA Ground Asset [Developments]

There were options - and trialed.
Each had their positives and negatives - VT-4s offered the most immediate independent control to PA. VT-4 was not to be the end all AFAIK - @Panzerkiel could advice. The UDs still need a future. Not all eggs are going into one basket.
We've only seen the VT-4 and Oplots in trials in Pakistan... Both gave the same issues to us that the Thai faced in their procurement... Other than these two i haven't heard, read or seen any proof of other evaluations or trials...
Another VT4 video doing tank things:
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
 
@Lion its not looking good brev...
There’s clearly a lot of discourse going around the problems the Thais are having with the VT4, some of them are real problems, others are being misreported - first, here’s a summary of the issues according to the Thai army themselves https://defence-blog.com/thai-soldiers-criticize-chinese-made-vt-4-tank/

Now let’s break them down:

1. The gun barrels: Thai soldiers have pointed out that the guns failed when they were pushed beyond their safe use limit, this is obviously misuse on their part (of the two barrels that have exploded, the first one did so after 200+ rounds of HE were fired through it within a short period of time, the second seems like it took external damage or had a misfire, but that would still point to some weakness in the gun after prolonged use). Even if misuse is present, it should still be pointed out that literally any other tank would have no problem doing this, the Chinese barrels are notoriously shit, they have a barrel life of around 500 rounds max, which is poor to say the least, (for comparison Russian and NATO tanks report 1000 to even upto 1500 round barrel life like with newer M1s). This is one of the reasons Pakistan uses its own barrels, said barrels use formerly French and now locally sourced blanks which are machined at HIT, no Chinese involvement (the major issue is with poor Chinese metallurgy, PA still reports the barrel life as 500-700, but we should expect better performance given we haven’t seen these issues with older PA MBTs using these barrels). Moreover, the VT4 does not have a quick-change (front removable) barrel in 2025, so if the barrel fails there’s no easy way to replace it either, this is incredibly stupid design (one of the other major reasons Pakistan is using its own barrel with said feature)

2: Powertrain breakdown/mobility issues: These issues were noted with the VT4 during Pakistani trials as well, it had an engine breakdown during trials (tbf the Oplot also had its track and sprocket break off). This is one of the reasons (other than better fuel average/range) that Pakistani VT4s are detuned to 1200 HP compared to Thai 1300HP (same engine is capable of upto 1500 HP). This reduces stress on the engine and will hopefully make it a bit more reliable in PA service, but it’s not a fix like with the barrel and failures should be expected, an issue is an issue, no point sugarcoating it. PA has a lot of distance to cover with tanks so the range matters a lot more to them as compared to Thailand. Plus the AK and UD series has excellent range owing to their low torque engines. Keep in mind both options PA tested had issues here, the T84s powertrain is definitely more reliable but it is painfully underpowered for the size and weight of the tank. The Thais again don’t mind this because they’re not moving much, for PA it would be an issue.

3. Weak side armor: Yes, this was noted during trials and remains an issue with not just VT4 but all Chinese-Pakistani tanks, I remember some Chinese members doing a horrible job trying to convince me how side armor wasn’t needed in Chinese armor doctrine (lmao). Regardless of the reasons; The Chinese have never put decent side armor on any of their MBTs and I don’t know why. PA does use ERA on VT4 sides unlike the Thais and PA VT4s have FY-IV so the protection is considerably better, but the issue remains until APS is introduced. The Oplot was noted to have considerably better side armor in both PA and Thai trials.

4. Slow turret traverse: Issues exists with both VT4 and AK series, the hull turns too fast for the turret to keep up, turret snaps into place when turn is complete, not only bad for targeting but also dangerous because of shock loads on components, no fix implemented so far, not too major of an issue but an issue nonetheless.

5. Electronic failures and other reliability issues: These were absolutely noted in PA trials too, and they continue to remain a reality with the VT4, PA hopes to reduce some of these with better QC on HITs part and better maintenance on PAs, (E.g; when the Chinese used to fly the F6 and Q5, their engine and airframe lives were half of what the PAF had, purely because of really meticulous maintenance), some of it has been reduced due to slightly different electrical systems in the Haiders, but by and large these issues remain with the vehicle.


The VT4 is not a perfect tank and is quite frankly a last gen design dressed up with current Gen gadgets (so is the oplot to be clear). PAs decision to buy it obviously involved dozens more factors like a lack of better options; (regardless of what the Thai army says, the VT4 is a generation ahead of the oplot, particularly in terms of FCS, GCS, Control systems, sights, Awareness etc, some of this the Thais have already mentioned), delivery issues that ukraine was facing (even before the war), cheaper prices, TOT, the Oplots size and profile issues (too tall, too big, too heavy) etc.

One of the biggest reasons for the VT4 going through was that despite all these issues, it remains a much better tank than what the adversary fields (Stock T90), even the new modernized Indian T90 only brings it on par tech wise with AK-1 and nowhere near the Haider. I would really like to see the HIT and PA take a proactive approach and actually take meaningful steps to remove these potential issues from the Haider as they indigenize it, we absolutely can do so given most of these problems aren’t hard to fix. They’ve already taken at least some steps, but with a genuinely locally driven effort they can make this a reliable machine.

Hope that clears up some of the discourse around the VT4s performance.​
 
Last edited:
There were options - and trialed.
Each had their positives and negatives - VT-4s offered the most immediate independent control to PA. VT-4 was not to be the end all AFAIK - @Panzerkiel could advice. The UDs still need a future. Not all eggs are going into one basket.
PA trialed 4+ options, it was a multi-stage procurement, only the VT4 and Oplot made it to the final round, they definitely weren’t the only options considered though.
 
We've only seen the VT-4 and Oplots in trials in Pakistan... Both gave the same issues to us that the Thai faced in their procurement... Other than these two i haven't heard, read or seen any proof of other evaluations or trials...
Another VT4 video doing tank things:
To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Not all options were tested inside Pakistan.
 
PA trialed 4+ options, it was a multi-stage procurement, only the VT4 and Oplot made it to the final round, they definitely weren’t the only options considered though.
What were the other ones?
 
What were the other two?
T90 Series was one of the major contenders and was the last to be eliminated before the final two. Other than that, Italian and polish options were considered, Modified versions of Atlay as well. All were rejected for one reason or another.
 
Drone vs Tank? i think i will always opt for drones against tanks. Tanks are now a sitting duck for drones. all one need drones in number with anti tank vector on it to target tanks
 




Thai tank crews operating the VT-4 main battle tank have raised sharp criticism over the platform’s reliability during real-world operations, citing repeated mechanical failures and design shortcomings encountered during active use, according to multiple accounts from serving personnel.

Soldiers and officers familiar with the tank’s operation report that the VT-4 has suffered from frequent malfunctions during both training and operational deployments. These complaints focus on failures observed under sustained use rather than isolated incidents, with crews describing problems that directly affected operational readiness.

Among the most serious concerns raised by operators is the performance of the main gun during prolonged firing. Tank crews report that barrel durability becomes an issue after extensive live-fire use in the field, particularly when the number of rounds fired exceeds what they describe as safe operational limits during ongoing missions. Electronic systems and the engine have also been described as prone to malfunction, with crews reporting intermittent failures that complicate field operations.


Additional criticism centers on protection and mobility characteristics. Operators have described the side armor as insufficient compared with expectations for a modern main battle tank, while turret traverse speed has been assessed by crews as slower than required during dynamic engagements. These assessments come from personnel who have used the tanks under operational conditions rather than controlled trials.

Despite these issues, crews acknowledge several strengths of the VT-4, including modern fire-control systems, hunter-killer targeting capability. However, operators stress that these advantages do not offset what they describe as persistent reliability problems during sustained use.

In contrast, older tanks still in Thai service are widely regarded by crews as more dependable. Personnel operating legacy platforms report that the Ukrainian-built T-84BM Oplot-T, as well as U.S.-origin M48A5PI and M60A3 TIFCS Patton tanks, have demonstrated consistent performance under both combat and non-combat conditions. Several crews describe the M60 Patton series as mechanically stable despite its age, with fewer unexpected failures during extended operations.

Based on field experience, some officers have informally recommended relying more heavily on units equipped with Patton and Oplot tanks for demanding tasks, citing predictable performance and easier maintenance. These views reflect operational feedback rather than formal procurement or doctrinal decisions.

Ukrainian-made Oplot-T tank.

Only after these internal criticisms circulated did the issue receive official confirmation. The Royal Thai Army has since acknowledged that a VT-4 tank suffered serious damage during operations following sustained live firing.

Col. Richa Suksuwanont, deputy spokesperson for the Royal Thai Army, confirmed that the incident occurred and that the tank was damaged after repeated firing of its main gun.

“Regarding the case of a Thai VT-4 tank experiencing an accident in which firing caused the gun barrel to burst, it did occur,” Col. Richa said. “The tank has damage. As for the cause, it cannot yet be specified and is currently under technical examination.”

Army officials said the cause of the damage has not yet been determined and remains under technical investigation. The Army has not reported any injuries connected to the incident and has not announced changes to VT-4 deployment or usage pending the outcome of the examination.

The VT-4 is produced by China’s state-owned defense manufacturer NORINCO and represents Thailand’s most modern armored fighting vehicle in frontline service. The tank was acquired to replace aging platforms and to provide advanced digital fire-control and battlefield management capabilities.
 
There’s clearly a lot of discourse going around the problems the Thais are having with the VT4, some of them are real problems, others are being misreported - first, here’s a summary of the issues according to the Thai army themselves https://defence-blog.com/thai-soldiers-criticize-chinese-made-vt-4-tank/

Now let’s break them down:

1. The gun barrels: Thai soldiers have pointed out that the guns failed when they were pushed beyond their safe use limit, this is obviously misuse on their part (of the two barrels that have exploded, the first one did so after 200+ rounds of HE were fired through it within a short period of time, the second seems like it took external damage or had a misfire, but that would still point to some weakness in the gun after prolonged use). Even if misuse is present, it should still be pointed out that literally any other tank would have no problem doing this, the Chinese barrels are notoriously shit, they have a barrel life of around 500 rounds max, which is poor to say the least, (for comparison Russian and NATO tanks report 1000 to even upto 1500 round barrel life like with newer M1s). This is one of the reasons Pakistan uses its own barrels, said barrels use formerly French and now locally sourced blanks which are machined at HIT, no Chinese involvement (the major issue is with poor Chinese metallurgy, PA still reports the barrel life as 500-700, but we should expect better performance given we haven’t seen these issues with older PA MBTs using these barrels). Moreover, the VT4 does not have a quick-change (front removable) barrel in 2025, so if the barrel fails there’s no easy way to replace it either, this is incredibly stupid design (one of the other major reasons Pakistan is using its own barrel with said feature)

2: Powertrain breakdown/mobility issues: These issues were noted with the VT4 during Pakistani trials as well, it had an engine breakdown during trials (tbf the Oplot also had its track and sprocket break off). This is one of the reasons (other than better fuel average/range) that Pakistani VT4s are detuned to 1200 HP compared to Thai 1300HP (same engine is capable of upto 1500 HP). This reduces stress on the engine and will hopefully make it a bit more reliable in PA service, but it’s not a fix like with the barrel and failures should be expected, an issue is an issue, no point sugarcoating it. PA has a lot of distance to cover with tanks so the range matters a lot more to them as compared to Thailand. Plus the AK and UD series has excellent range owing to their low torque engines. Keep in mind both options PA tested had issues here, the T84s powertrain is definitely more reliable but it is painfully underpowered for the size and weight of the tank. The Thais again don’t mind this because they’re not moving much, for PA it would be an issue.

3. Weak side armor: Yes, this was noted during trials and remains an issue with not just VT4 but all Chinese-Pakistani tanks, I remember some Chinese members doing a horrible job trying to convince me how side armor wasn’t needed in Chinese armor doctrine (lmao). Regardless of the reasons; The Chinese have never put decent side armor on any of their MBTs and I don’t know why. PA does use ERA on VT4 sides unlike the Thais and PA VT4s have FY-IV so the protection is considerably better, but the issue remains until APS is introduced. The Oplot was noted to have considerably better side armor in both PA and Thai trials.

4. Slow turret traverse: Issues exists with both VT4 and AK series, the hull turns too fast for the turret to keep up, turret snaps into place when turn is complete, not only bad for targeting but also dangerous because of shock loads on components, no fix implemented so far, not too major of an issue but an issue nonetheless.

5. Electronic failures and other reliability issues: These were absolutely noted in PA trials too, and they continue to remain a reality with the VT4, PA hopes to reduce some of these with better QC on HITs part and better maintenance on PAs, (E.g; when the Chinese used to fly the F6 and Q5, their engine and airframe lives were half of what the PAF had, purely because of really meticulous maintenance), some of it has been reduced due to slightly different electrical systems in the Haiders, but by and large these issues remain with the vehicle.


The VT4 is not a perfect tank and is quite frankly a last gen design dressed up with current Gen gadgets (so is the oplot to be clear). PAs decision to buy it obviously involved dozens more factors like a lack of better options; (regardless of what the Thai army says, the VT4 is a generation ahead of the oplot, particularly in terms of FCS, GCS, Control systems, sights, Awareness etc, some of this the Thais have already mentioned), delivery issues that ukraine was facing (even before the war), cheaper prices, TOT, the Oplots size and profile issues (too tall, too big, too heavy) etc.

One of the biggest reasons for the VT4 going through was that despite all these issues, it remains a much better tank than what the adversary fields (Stock T90), even the new modernized Indian T90 only brings it on par tech wise with AK-1 and nowhere near the Haider. I would really like to see the HIT and PA take a proactive approach and actually take meaningful steps to remove these potential issues from the Haider as they indigenize it, we absolutely can do so given most of these problems aren’t hard to fix. They’ve already taken at least some steps, but with a genuinely locally driven effort they can make this a reliable machine.

Hope that clears up some of the discourse around the VT4s performance.​
thank you for writing this man .
 
PA trialed 4+ options, it was a multi-stage procurement, only the VT4 and Oplot made it to the final round, they definitely weren’t the only options considered though.
Sometime after the testing and selection process was completed, some one mentioned (on the older PDF) that in a particular test, probably involving maneuvers in a hilly area, all contenders (including AK and Oplot) flatly failed except VT4, which went through it with thumbs up success. That poster was all praise for the power terrain of VT4 tank. But all machines have issues, some more and others less, and the selection is made based on a plethora of factors. VT4 came out to be the best option then among all contenders.

It's also worth mentioning that Pakistan is producing local gun barrels for decades now. Germans assisted Pakistan doing that by transferring the required technology to Pakistan.
 
Sometime after the testing and selection process was completed, some one mentioned (on the older PDF) that in a particular test, probably involving maneuvers in a hilly area, all contenders (including AK and Oplot) flatly failed except VT4, which went through it with thumbs up success. That poster was all praise for the power terrain of VT4 tank. But all machines have issues, some more and others less, and the selection is made based on a plethora of factors. VT4 came out to be the best option then among all contenders.

It's also worth mentioning that Pakistan is producing local gun barrels for decades now. Germans assisted Pakistan doing that by transferring the required technology to Pakistan.
The VT4 has decent mobility, the test in question wasn’t that hard tbf, it’s just that all the other tanks in question are underpowered and VT4 has the correct amount of power for it’s weight. Even detuned to 1200HP it can drive circles around the other MBTs in PA service.

HIT delivered its first tank gun barrels in April 2011, but the project to make it was launched even before the AK was unveiled in 2000, the quality has considerably improved since.

I agree that the VT4 was the “best” Option we had, but at the end it was honestly the only option we had left too. Even if PA picked the Oplot, Ukraine would never have been able to match the order and HIT doesn’t have the capability to produce powertrains locally.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top