PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[Scorpio]

F-16s are no longer the top fighter in PAF.... in fact, most likely, JF BLK III will also surpass the V standard as well........the whole idea of getting F-16s V upgrades is to keep existing stock of combat ready fighter jets ready. Read Oscar's post because i don't want to type again on the same issue.

the older MLUs will be retired once J-35s or other 5th Gen are inducted.

JF17 block 3 surpasses F-16 V is bit seems to be over estimation...

Secondly V update vs cost metters a lot specially when we not getting long BRV ranges ..


For flying F-16 current package offered can be enough

Thirdly due availability of thunder JF17 flying hours of F-16 can reduce to increase there service life

 

[White Privilege]

Good question. Maybe decision to preserve was taken late.

Also, the F model saw both wars so must have been lost in higher numbers leaving fewer airframes. Mostly F models were also abandoned in former East Pakistan. Did E models also serve from East Pakistan??

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

janab what is the role of f 16 fir air to ground role. do paf have some weaponary in their arsenal in the scenario of indo -pak

brother if you dont mind please avoid saying these janabs, we pakistani are already fedup of these words from bolly.. if you use they will think pakistani actually use this word and will carry on with this which is really annoying now for us pakistani

 

[AeronautIR]

Also, the F model saw both wars so must have been lost in higher numbers leaving fewer airframes. Mostly F models were also abandoned in former East Pakistan. Did E models also serve from East Pakistan??

They were all E... will ask the author of this book Mr. Usman Shabbir about it... he knows Saber's history far better than me. Because even if many F models were lost, several could have been preserved.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

Not neglected. Even JF-17 block 2 was in A2A role in 2019 with SD-10.

One major heart back for me is we still have zero kill for our JFs in air to air role. Why we didnt get a JF kill in swift retort? arent SD-10 was on par with AIM120 c5? maybe with a slight margin on lower side? Similarly why we didnt get a kill on our JF block 3 in these may attack? aik tau kill hona chahiye? if they were within 150km range this may

 

[AeronautIR]

One major heart back for me is we still have zero kill for our JFs in air to air role. Why we didnt get a JF kill in swift retort? arent SD-10 was on par with AIM120 c5? maybe with a slight margin on lower side? Similarly why we didnt get a kill on our JF block 3 in these may attack? aik tau kill hona chahiye? if they were within 150km range this may

SD-10 has lesser range than AMRAAM. Moreover, even with the same BVR like PL-15, the range will be lesser at lower altitude.
F-16 and J-10C can climb in Block 4 (>40,000ft) quickly than Thunder. The same BVR ranges will reduce below block 4 for J-10 too.
It changes with factors like speed, altitude, aspect etc. Quite dynamic and that's why PL-15 on J-10 is more effective than JF-17.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

SD-10 has lesser range than AMRAAM. Moreover, even with same range BVR like PL-15, the range will be lesser at lower altitude.
F-16 and J-10C can climb in Block 4 (>40,000ft) quickly than Thunder. The same BVR ranges will reduce below block 4 for J-10 too.
It changes with factors like speed, altitude, aspect etc. Quite dynamic and that's why PL-15 on J-10 is more effective than JF-17.

from your response what i understood is that our JF has engine power issues? will chinese WS 13 or WS 21 can help us solve that issue?

 

[AeronautIR]

from your response what i understood is that our JF has engine power issues? will chinese WS 13 or WS 21 can help us solve that issue?

Haven't read about its specifications, so not sure. Physics is simple, thrust-to-weight ratio should be able to give you required excess thrust for better rate of climb.
Less fuel is also an issue in JF-17, so even with better engine, it will still not be able to use afterburner for that much time.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

Haven't read about its specifications, so not sure. Physics is simple, thrust-to-weight ratio should be able to give you required excess thrust for better rate of climb.
Less fuel is also an issue in JF-17, so even with better engine, it will still not be able to use afterburner for that much time.

What if we had an WS-19 kind of engine which has supercruise ability without going afterburner? will that suffice? Also, Apology if i have asked some stupid question but i dont feel any shame in asking basic things that i dont know

 

[White Privilege]

Not neglected. Even JF-17 block 2 was in A2A role in 2019 with SD-10.

Were Thunders flying with AESA and PL-15s, during that conflict ??

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

Were Thunders flying with AESA and PL-15s, during that conflict ??

no, we got AESA in JF-17 block 3 which is inducted after 2019 conflict

 

[AeronautIR]

Were Thunders flying with AESA and PL-15s, during that conflict ??

Nope, no Block 3 back then. SD-10 BVR.

 

[Tariq Habib Afridi]

SD-10 has lesser range than AMRAAM. Moreover, even with same range BVR like PL-15, the range will be lesser at lower altitude.
F-16 and J-10C can climb in Block 4 (>40,000ft) quickly than Thunder. The same BVR ranges will reduce below block 4 for J-10 too.
It changes with factors like speed, altitude, aspect etc. Quite dynamic and that's why PL-15 on J-10 is more effective than JF-17.

Haven't read about its specifications, so not sure. Physics is simple, thrust-to-weight ratio should be able to give you required excess thrust for better rate of climb.
Less fuel is also an issue in JF-17, so even with better engine, it will still not be able to use afterburner for that much time.

@Michael when you were saying that JF-17 has reached its limit, then you were pointing towards these issues?
My other question from you is what if we have a WS-19 kind or lets suppose WS-19 installed on JF-17 will that brings improvement in having better radar and better climb rate for better AtoA missile release?

 

[AeronautIR]

What if we had an WS-19 kind of engine which has supercruise ability without going afterburner? will that suffice? Also, Apology if i have asked some stupid question but i dont feel any shame in asking basic things that i dont know

There are no stupid questions and you are kind enough to ask anything with good manners.
It is not that simple to put any engine in a fighter. As I said, I don't know myself about these particular engines, so first question will be regarding its size. If it fits, good enough. Otherwise, we will need a lot of changes in airframe design and that is a whole another problem.

 

[Ak01]

What if we had an WS-19 kind of engine which has supercruise ability without going afterburner? will that suffice? Also, Apology if i have asked some stupid question but i dont feel any shame in asking basic things that i dont know

PAF trials on JF-17 of WS13/21 are in later stages.