CCS clears AMCA for IAF

[vkdindian]

A sector that hasn't build even a third gen plane on its own, is expected to take up straight away fifth gen project??? Does it even make sense ??

A valid question mark.

However, the private sector isn’t likely to have the full ownership of doing the entire work. It is likely to be participation by bringing in few technologies into the project. Some of them may have been been developed by the public sector undertakings and handed over to them for industrialisation.

SPV is likely to help in cutting down the timelines due bureaucratic delays on smallest of decisions.

The biggest problem is inter-departmental rivalries playing a spoilsport. They would still play a big role and can add to the delays.

 

[indushek]

A valid question mark.

However, the private sector isn’t likely to have the full ownership of doing the entire work. It is likely to be participation by bringing in few technologies into the project. Some of them may have been been developed by the public sector undertakings and handed over to them for industrialisation.

SPV is likely to help in cutting down the timelines due bureaucratic delays on smallest of decisions.

The biggest problem is inter-departmental rivalries playing a spoilsport. They would still play a big role and can add to the delays.

Brother its not just the babus and working style

Tell me where did we try and develop a Boeing or LM kind of company? Did these companies come up over night? They need constant support

Fact is that, we are inward looking people. Defense and Army related stuff comes at the last, when the enemy is standing at the gates. Its a centuries old thing, something ingrained into culture. Am not saying our Army is not brave, but brave doesn't help all the time. Equipment means life and death, and through centuries we have been playing catch up.

Gun, Cannon etc etc -- so hell lot of work has to be done on Indian minds. Stop depending on Imports and develop, spend for it. If we start today, maybe our grandsons or great grandsons can see results. If not it will be the same 'history repeats'.

 

[vkdindian]

Tell me where did we try and develop a Boeing or LM kind of company?

HAL and DRDO, could have been anything that we wanted it to be. But, I guess they are what they are, due to the work culture prevalent in all our government controlled agencies. A few were able to do better due to some exceptional men and women. Indian space and missile program are two examples of that.

We need a revolutionary change in our work culture to get it right. A few baby steps have been taken, but are they good enough? I don’t know.

 

[indushek]

HAL and DRDO, could have been anything that we wanted it to be. But, I guess they are what they are, due to the work culture prevalent in all our government controlled agencies. A few were able to do better due to some exceptional men and women. Indian space and missile program are two examples of that.

We need a revolutionary change in our work culture to get it right. A few baby steps have been taken, but are they good enough? I don’t know.

Sadly no, but we can't lob everything on work culture and people. There is also the constraint of funding, and the problem of International sanctions we faced from time to time.

However we need to do far far better, if we ever want to become self reliant. We can't get people like Kalam saab all the time, which means institutions and procedures have to be strengthened.

 

[vkdindian]

Sadly no, but we can't lob everything on work culture and people.

I stand corrected. When I said work culture, I meant the entire spectrum of it, that includes, funds, our psyche, our collective will etc etc. The whole package needs an overhaul.

As far as sanctions go, I have a digressing view on that.
Many nations have produced stellar stuff inspite of sanctions. We could too, if not for reasons discussed in many of the posts.

 

[LegionnairE]

Isn’t this a bit too premature? The is flying in prototype form the other is a project. These is nothing like which one is better since for the moment only one „is“!

I find your lack of faith in the Indian J-35 disturbing.

 

[Oscar]

I happen to be a very handsome person. Everybody says so.

Again, insecurities but understandable with the background. Just don’t derail the topic - stick to AMCA

 

[Oscar]

I stand corrected. When I said work culture, I meant the entire spectrum of it, that includes, funds, our psyche, our collective will etc etc. The whole package needs an overhaul.

As far as sanctions go, I have a digressing view on that.
Many nations have produced stellar stuff inspite of sanctions. We could too, if not for reasons discussed in many of the posts.

They have circumvented sanctions - as India has tried to too. Ive hinted multiple times of Dubai drawing rooms where both Indian and Pakistani R&D teams would be facing each other wondering who the other was there to meet and for what.

The 90s was a crazy time with all the ex-USSR, South African, North Korean and Israeli SMEs running around looking for work(sometimes state “look the other way”) beyond sanctions being thrown left and eight , and despite “indigenous “ claims from both parties - a LOT of meetings and a LOT of things went around these common ports while the West along with their international agencies tried to control it.

“Lord of war” is a terrible analogy from Hollywood but that is not off from ways arms dealers and LE kept around in circles.

Indians are smart - many are capable - but not everyone had epiphanies out of thin air.

 

[AsaRad1]

AMCA model at ADA..gives a clear idea of the final configuration
View attachment 24459

Looks like a twin-engine F-35. Bit like Chinese J-35

 

[vkdindian]

Lord of war” is a terrible analogy from Hollywood but that is not off from ways arms dealers and LE kept around in circles.

Very true.
In fact, in the 60s or 70s one US team came to both India and Paksiatn and got along a small model of an aircraft and gifted one to both of us with each one’s flag painted on it. They tried to sell it to both of us. Their aim was to find a buyer and not anything else.

 

[kmc_chacko]

No , 250 minimum , +120 LCA + 200 Amca + 120 Rafales ,still short of 42 sanctioned sqdrn strength.

Issues of Mig-29K has made IN to look out for indigenous fighter and this made IN eager to develop TBEFA, this eagerness has allowed IN to test N-LCA on deck its flagship that shows their keenness on having Indigenous Twin Fighters.

If TBEFA become reality automatically IAF will start to investing on its future. If LCA, TBEFA & AMCA becomes reality by 2030s then just forget Rafales.

 

[MirageBlue]

Boeings a mess right now so probably not the best example but true for procedures.

Boeing did not set up the procedure for that. The FAA did. The rest basically copy their procedures because it is the most comprehensive and regarded as the most thorough and safe.

Even then there have been shortfalls, due in part to FAA lacking human resources to have deep oversight on so many programs. Nevertheless, it is the industry standard.

If one company decides to throw that standard out the window to speed up a first flight to please a leader, then that is their look out. Others who don't have such frivolous reasons to take short-cuts will avoid it.

Boeing itself has faced the brunt of poor design reviews and trying to fox FAA with poorly thought out things- case in point being the 737-MAX and it's MCAS which would never have passed a thorough review.

 

[kmc_chacko]

First of 180 Tejas Mark 1A aircraft set to be delivered by March-end​

83 jets were ordered by the MoD in February 2021 under a Rs 48,000 crore order to HAL

97 more Tejas Mark-1A fighter jets were okayed for procurement by the Defence Acquisition Council in November last year. This will be in addition to 83 such jets ordered in February 2021.

The first plane of the upgraded version of Light Combat Aircraft — Tejas Mark 1A — is set to be delivered by the end of this month and six more will be delivered this year.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/india/first-of-180-tejas-mark-1a-aircraft-set-to-be-delivered-by-march-end-599333

 

[BobBiswas]

The problem with all these statements is that in essence its math not design.

There is math which solves to a particular design being the best balance for low RCS, maneuvering, payload and building ease.

So if the math is common - why would not everyone build around it.

The “copying” is simply everyone taking advantage of the math the US worked out 30 years before any competition

Its rather everyone else found it the hard way after 30 years... This is India finding what works best over a period of 10 years or so.. My heart still says 07 is the best but numbers say something else.

 

[BobBiswas]

But which one is better? Indian J-35 or Chinese J-35?

Chinese J-35. It flies atleast.