Pakistan Missiles - Updates, News & Discussion

[GatlingGun]

According to reports, Pakistan was able to make this engine around 2020,It was only after the success of this engine that Pakistan started offering the Harbah and Taimur cruise missiles for export.

When were these missiles tested with Pakistani engines ?? NOTAM dates ?

 

[Khansaheeb]

Highly unlikely Pakistan produces the engines for its missiles.

You are highly mistaken

 

[Khansaheeb]

Tomahawk Chinese copy ones of course. The failed tomahawks that fell in Pk in 2001-2 were promptly handed over to the Chinese for reverse engineering aka copying.

Proper iron little brother style.

You do know it is easier to make from scratch than copy some one elses product?

 

[AsaRad1]

According to reports, Pakistan was able to make this engine around 2020,It was only after the success of this engine that Pakistan started offering the Harbah and Taimur cruise missiles for export.

I feel like the boomers at NESCOM/GIDS should seriously release some short clips or tours (with good opsec of course) of these facilities and engines being tested.

It would be good PR, plus definitely good inspiration for the youth looking to get involved in the industry. Right now the defence talk is surrounded by stupid conspiracy theories, weak understanding, and little realistic talk because there's no awareness.

 

[samejjangir]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1998/08/28/pakistan-says-it-is-studying-errant-us-missile/47c5cf73-901f-4734-bac8-4c9edb46b3ac/

Studying engines is not that easy. Otherwise, Pakistan already operates many fighter jets and could have studied the engine and made one by now. I had been telling this for a long time that Babur missile is not fully Pakistani as it has imported engines.

Yeah - engines definitely a reverse engineering aspect but guidance is all inhouse from scratch.
The tomahawks were intact but that doesn’t mean you could copy code or create components just like that - it provided a blueprint for what needs to go into the package and how to package it efficiently… Raytheon is a master at this.

I actually had the code for the 1st iteration’s inertial and terrain avoidance at one point through poor opsec I guess that sat on a US designed floating point chip. But that was the simplest version and obsolete by the time I got it- today’s one can pick out a single individual window on a building and fly directly into it after overflying it and coming around.

If anything, that was a godsend - shaved millions of dollars on buying anything and gave Pakistan a serious CM backbone. Thank you Clinton.

As for guidance, my question is how can Pakistan make semiconductor chipsets which is critical in guidance. INS requires sophisticated chipset and the mission computers need chipsets too.

 

[Khansaheeb]

Studying engines is not that easy. Otherwise, Pakistan already operates many fighter jets and could have studied the engine and made one by now. I had been telling this for a long time that Babur missile is not fully Pakistani as it has imported engines.

As for guidance, my question is how can Pakistan make semiconductor chipsets which is critical in guidance. INS requires sophisticated chipset and the mission computers need chipsets too.

The making of seminconductors and chips is not difficult, the challenge is the scale of Intel , AMD and the foundries of large semiconductor companies. Pak army does have small scale foundries and custom chip designs labs.

 

[Sharma Ji]

I actually had the code for the 1st iteration’s inertial and terrain avoidance at one point through poor opsec I guess that sat on a US designed floating point chip. But that was the simplest version and obsolete by the time I got it

how ?

 

[Sharma Ji]

Studying engines is not that easy. Otherwise, Pakistan already operates many fighter jets and could have studied the engine and made one by now. I had been telling this for a long time that Babur missile is not fully Pakistani as it has imported engines.

Someone I know (kinda friend) of mine who works for one of the aviation engine biggies, brilliant guy, obviously.

He'd applied for the military side of things but the scrutiny and background checks were a bit too much (being a foreigner etc).. says he could maybe have got through but decided its too much of a headache (would have been very difficult to even travel back home for family visits) so he went the easier way with the civvie stuff. Even there, even as a rookie.. company/industry secrets ka kaafi scene hai. They're extremely wary of espionage and that whole scene.

 

[Oscar]

Studying engines is not that easy. Otherwise, Pakistan already operates many fighter jets and could have studied the engine and made one by now. I had been telling this for a long time that Babur missile is not fully Pakistani as it has imported engines.

As for guidance, my question is how can Pakistan make semiconductor chipsets which is critical in guidance. INS requires sophisticated chipset and the mission computers need chipsets too.

All China or combo of Pakistani design and manufacturing in China. You can basically send any chipset design there and they’ll produce it for you based on the quality.

You forget Pakistan does have the closest alliance to the world’s factory where everyone from Texas Instruments to Qualcomm and Xilinx all manufacture items - and those factories like SMIC are happy to make non branded copies for anyone with money. Today in Pakistan if you want to, you can get the complete chipset(s) or even substrate to design for your custom ICBM guidance - to the required physical tolerance specifications(and the knowledge base exists already in the organizations. Send the files off to the Chinese factory, they will quote you multiple quality/quantity items and voila.. all is up and running.

I’ve mentioned this ad nauseum but we had BEL manufactured microwave components, MCs and so on manufactured 2010 January and sitting in a cardboard box in ziplocks in offices by March 2010 to test out and see if worth sending for copy or testing against components in Pakistani systems.

Even back when Babur was first getting ready the guidance chips were all commercially available or dual use.. no problem with access or scale.

Need to test a UAV? No problem - Israeli Flights computer sitting around to put jt through its paces.

Today, with China where it is now - Pakistan has ZERO problems accessing ANY chipset design or configuration barring its imagination and knowledge base.

 

[Oscar]

how ?

Commercial chip - and there were learned people around always in Pakistan - former western manufacturing etc

 

[Sharma Ji]

Studying engines is not that easy. Otherwise, Pakistan already operates many fighter jets and could have studied the engine and made one by now. I had been telling this for a long time that Babur missile is not fully Pakistani as it has imported engines.

Of course, which is why it was handed over to the Chinese, who had significantly better capability in "analyzing" those and using that knowledge to further their own project.

 

[safriz]

Many samples were bought from Ex USSR when it collapsed. Then transported to Pakistan by various means.
Overseas Pakistanis played a major role.

 

[Zarvan]

When were these missiles tested with Pakistani engines ?? NOTAM dates ?

Dude, we don't announce such things. Unlike you, we don't announce such things.

 

[GatlingGun]

Dude, we don't announce such things. Unlike you, we don't announce such things.

Well. NOTAMS are mandatory announcement for such long range missile testings. Do you guys keep track of yours ??

 

[Zarvan]

Well. NOTAMS are mandatory announcement for such long range missile testings. Do you guys keep track of yours ??

Yes these tests take place and they are announced. What is not announced is whether the engine in the missiles are Pakistani or not. Or what parts were tested. If test is successful it's announced without being specific detail of what exactly was being checked in a specefic missile.