Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

Eşbah said:
The US probably wants to start 'Project China' before the Chinese become too powerful and therefore is not interested in a long war with the Iranians.
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Don't think US will start China project before cleansing strong pro-China forces like Russia/Iran which can come in to play.
 
Emirzad said:
Iranians inherently are extremely stubborn and arrogant people by nature. We always have a high tendency to go to extremes in love or hatred for something. Regime supporters and opposers both are examples of these extremities.

There is a small but visible group of self hate fetishists with repeated "I told you so" soothsayer syndrome, some are on this forum. They basically predict worst of the worst irrational BS.
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This has been a pretty insightful comment for me. Its a pattern very well relayed in the forum and I was beginning the wonder . The swings are very wide. From absolutely loving someone to hating them seems to take a drop of a hat. We see the same in some of the Pakistani substrata as well. I wonder if its inherited culture, or common cultural trajectory from being incubated in the same geography.
 
Congrats on launch of 4th Stealth Ship with 16 VLS

Seems like Solimani Class Stealth Ships are state of Art
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Boom Boom Tel Aviv was quite a big song a year ago on social media
 
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Immortals said:
The Republicans will never let the Democrats be the ones to secure landmark deals with Arabs, Iranians, China, or Russia. That’s reality.

Iran knew when it signed JCPOA that Republicans were against it. That Congress was against it. Yet decided despite that, they should kill their fastest way to a nuclear weapon (Arak Heavy water reactor) from the start.

Yes, both sides contribute weapon systems to Israel it’s a ritual at this point. The bigger the aid you give Israel the less you can be accused of being anti-Israel. It’s Machiavelli politics. Obama gave Israel a big deal at the same time to get enough of his base to support JCPOA. Obama was the only U.S. president to say out loud that Iran had its own strategic interests that should be taken into account. But at the time he said it because Iran was rapidly expanding and their economy was still relatively strong even under early 2010-2015 oil sanctions.
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You changed your POV within the span of two posts. Its fine but you were quite enthusiastically supporting the idea before that making a deal with a democratic president is some how better than with a Republican one which is just not true as you are agreeing now. Like I said before they are both IAC, AIPAC etc infested two sides of same coin. US deep state policies do not change, I gave example of Democratic policy on Syria which is persistent to this day despite the back an forth between two parties.

Immortals said:
And what is your plan here?

The U.S. is the enemy of Iran’s own doing. Did U.S. tell Iran to take hostages from US embassy like a bunch of religious Daeesh fanatics? Did US tell Iran to go and bomb the U.S. marine Barracks in Lebanon? Did US tell Iran to do the Argentina bombings? Did US tell Khomeini not accept the 1982 ceasefire and march on Karbala and pro long the war another 6 years?? Did US tell Iran to practice ‘neither east nor West’?

Let’s be honest 1980-1995, Iran was a psuedo Islamic radical state that used earliest forms of terrorist attacks to pressure the West. The problem is the revolutionary flame burned out in less than 2 decades. Which is typical in these types of systems (see Cuba, Venezuela, Vietnam, North Korea).

Even Putin called Iran’s leadership crazy in 2003. Let that sink in.

Iran thought with a little oil to thicken its wallet, it can take over the Middle East and stand up to the U.S. and Israel with foreign legions. That as long as it could sell oil no one could stop it. No Air Force, No geo sats, no modern Navy, just some missiles and prayers. It wasn’t a strategy it was suicide.

Nobody on here has a plan. Not that they ever did. The plan the last few years has been resist and resist and resist. NO nukes. No war. NO negotiations. Unfortunately, This isn’t the movie Star Wars, the rebels don’t win against the Evil Empire here. Even nukes at this point will just guarantee that Iran becomes North Korea.

There is no prosperity as long as America remains the enemy.
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And water is wet ... why do you keep repeating the same irrelevant to discussion (US presidential vs deep state policies) lines that we all know already? Except for 1-2 Iranian members who I believe are teenagers, nobody here supports strategic policies of IRI or the mistakes Khamenei made ever since Ahamdinejad's first tenure, that you have to keep explaining us. "let that sink in" lol we all know how nuclear program was deliberately politicized at international level leading to self induced crippling sanctions. When plan backfired, reformists were brought in to bargain with west blah blah. I am a secular nationalist, like me majority younger generation Iranians view the entire anti US anti Israel AoR idea as inherently useless posture along with Islamo-Marxist socioeconomic mode that IRI is based on. Arab stupidity to support USSR fueled Baathists against IRI gave life to IRI otherwise entire Islamo-Marxists dysfunctional revolutionary system would have collapsed by early-mid 80s. You try to lecture random stuff like everyone here was born yesterday and is a staunch Khamenei-IRI supporter. Actually this is the trap many diaspora Iranians fall into, they start mistaking Iranian nationalism with support for IRI the system. You would be surprised how much aware of all this Iranians living in Iran are. I keep talking to family members back on these subject. They understand all this thats why opposition to Khamenei led system is more deeper than diaspora even realize. Its not just limited to economically hurt protestors on street.

Immortals said:
No it doesn’t. Those are all in storage. Not “aimed”. The only missiles “aimed” were the silos based ones that Iran bragged would be fired within 30 mins of any attack. Yet no missile attack from Iran came for over 24 hours!

Getting missiles out and on TEL takes hours and this time around you can’t bank on Israel flying 1200 miles to bomb them when USAF can penetrate Iranian airspace at will with drones and 5th gen fighters
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You expect all thousands of missiles to be on TELs 24/7 ? thats flawed strategy to extremes because that would welcome more trouble as enemy would know their positions, types, easy targets for SOWs, internal terrorism. Even Russia the military superpower cant have that kind of quick response capability conventionally. How much time they take between conventional missile strikes ? Also please stop quoting Salami and co types as "Iran" said this and that. Countries do propaganda but it means nothing. Some around us do it more than IRI does. If you think a general will come on national TV and give presentation on "Harsh critical analysis of our defence shortcomings" then you are living in fools paradise. We were unfortunate to have narrative builders like Salami, Bagheri types but mind you they exists everywhere esp in our part of the world.

Immortals said:
Artillery does immense damage in war. It’s the real ground tool of war. Russia’s entire advantage in Ukraine war is its artillery. It fires over 10,000 shells a day.

Seoul can be flattened in hours by artillery teams in NK. Tens of thousands will die in just the first hours alone. Artillery Teams have been set up for years if not decades since the Korean War ended.

Iran fired 800 missiles at Israel and didn’t even kill 500 people. You cannot compare mass artillery salvos with BMs.
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Flawed logic. You are assuming that DPRK that relies upon outside help for food will somehow keep firing artillery shells in armed to teeth South Korea and other-side will just keep taking it ? Even if I accept this stupid scenario, what happens after this "artillery strikes for hours" ? What happens if Japan, South Korea, US simultaneously cripple DPRK the state with thousands of PGMs in return or naval blockade DPRK ? they have no airforce or any exceptionally modern layered AD, bits and pieces navy will be blasted within ports. Also who is gonna fund all this war for DPRK at 15-20 Billion USD GDP ? Chinese ? Russians ? thats not gonna happen. Please tell me they will take out the "atomic bomb". World does not work that way, atleast wars do not happen this way. DPRK is a dysfunctional state with GDP lower than cities of its neighbours, it cant sustain an actual war with hundred times richer, more modernly armed countries. They went into the nuclear direction for this reason because ideological or revolutionary states are inherently dysfunctional, some more than others but DPRK is to the core. You can make these doomsday scenarios but they mean nothing in real world otherwise such despotic regimes would be ruling the world, IRI included. This is literally like some Iranians think IRI will somehow block Strait of Hormuz and mass-missile the entire Persian Gulf Arab oil infrastructure and call it a day lol like there wont be repurcassions by hyperpower US and its allies that control the planet after that. Get real.

Immortals said:
Do you have proof none have? U.S. is one of the few countries on that side of the world that has refineries to process Heavy sour crude which is a thick sludge. In fact, Maduro in his last days was begging the U.S. companies to come back. But the incentive is not there anymore with Shale oil producing so much and oil at $60 dollars.

China is Iran circa 2003 with respect to how U.S. is positioned. Remember Haliburton (Dick cheney’s company) had an office in Tehran under Bush administration. The noose on China will tighten once Iran is taken care of. Even now you can see how the cards have been set.

I said on the old PDF that Russia was going to find itself in a tough position as U.S. creeped on its borders. Everyone laughed at me and said The West wouldn’t dare play games with Putin and that Russia would steam roll anyone who tried. Well we see what happened 10 years later, no?

China is next, once its energy security is threatened (Iran), as we know those Arabs will refuse to sell to China once Israel/US give the word. They got no spine.



Why didn’t they file a case when they boarded the Russian Tanker off the coast of England?
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There you go. Majority of Venezuelan oil keeps flowing to China. China was the main destination for Venezuelan crude even after Maduro https://www.reuters.com/business/en...et-drop-us-blockade-limits-cargoes-2026-01-14

Russia is still the owner of Venezuelan oil. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/russia-counters-trumps-assertion-over-oil-venezuela-2026-01-13/

Meanwhile US's own EIA data is showing fraction of that figure reaching US. Few hundreds to thousand Barrels, probably from looted cargo ships. Is that how US plans on running its refinaries ? https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?f=W&n=PET&s=W_EPC0_IM0_NUS-NVE_MBBLD.

So Russia owns the Venezuelan oil and China is taking bulk of it even after Maduro episode while US is capturing random tankers here and there. Thats not gonna run refinaries. US has no boots or support on ground either. Russo-Chinese backed Chavez's strong man Cabello practically controls Venezuela. Even if in future US starts to get some oil from Venzuela, it will be directly paying Russians for that. What did Maduro's capture actually achieve for Trump other than media theatrics ?

Immortals said:
Go look at the recent terrorist attack on Chinese company at the mining site in Afghanistan. The video is there to see. There is plenty of other places to get minerals without having to have full security around them 24/7.
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A random terrorist attack does not deter countries let alone superpowrs from their strategic economic decisions like extracting REMs or HCs. Chinese stay committed to extracted minerals from Afghanistan worth billions of USD. They are not going anywhere. How many soldiers, material losses, constant threat of attacks US has to face to secure hydrocarbon ME ? they should have left ME long ago by your logic the day Iranian controlled militias started exploding IEDs on their soldiers by your logic.

Immortals said:
Syria was given a deal in 2009. Leave Iran’s orbit and get the Golan back in exchange with a peace deal with Israel (early version of Abraham accord basically). Assad refused. There is well known picture of Assad and his wife having dinner with John Kerry and his wife.

Then the civil war broke out. And the U.S. sensed that Assad was too weak and took advantage. ANY strong country would do that. Iran would, Russia would, China would. If you are weak, you get eaten. That’s the laws of the jungle. There’s not some great conspiracy about it, where you need to invoke the deep state to justify it.

Assad gave haven to Sunni Islamist terrorists during the U.S. occupation of Iraq. They would do cross border raids from Syria into Iraq and back. The problem was Assad was too stupid to realize letting tens of thousands of radical Sunnis to jihad next door would come to bite him in the ass 5-7 years later. So of course the blowback eventually happened during the Arab Spring and suddenly those same Sunni Islamists were now attacking his forces. They had built cells all inside his country from the Iraq occupation days. It was short sighted on his end. He played with fire and got burned. Iran bailed him out, but again his economy was suffocated under Caesar sanctions.

The only point I was making was JCPOA should have always been done with republicans and never with democrats. It was doomed to fail once Dems lost control of the White House. Hillary wouldn’t have torn up the JCPOA like Trump did. But the US populous voted for a retard rather than an establishment candidate.
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Obama-H Clinton policy on Syria was based on the fact that they wanted to use Syrian land to move Persian Gulf Arab hydrocarbon to Turkey. Assad resistsed because of Russia and Iran. Call it his loyalty to this allies or fear of them but he refused. He was punished for this through western backed civil war that low IQ crowd here thinks was some sectarian conflict. The same policy persisted with Obama, Trump 1.0, Biden, Trump 2.0 ... still going on, because its a US deep state policy based on pure strategic-economic reasons. They wanted/still want EU to be independent of Russian blackmail. Trumps and Obamas of this world come and go but US policy on Syria stayed same. Similarly their Iran policy is persistant as well. Thats what my point was.

Immortals said:
And if you believe that a true long term deal was never possible with the U.S., then that means Iran should have gone to war 10 years ago rather than play this useless waiting game.
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Or Khamenei could have used the Khatami era relations with US and tried to normalize IRI with West again considering US-Israel support in 80s-00s (Osirak, Arms deals, Afghanistan and Iraq joint cooperation etc). You are again assuming everyone here is a blind Islamist.
 
AZADPAKISTAN2009 said:
Congrats on launch of 4th Stealth Ship with 16 VLS

Seems like Solimani Class Stealth Ships are state of Art
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Boom Boom Tel Aviv was quite a big song a year ago on social media
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Very high firepower and AD for their sizes. IRIN (Regular navy) is still stuck with conventional Mowj class. I hope they adapt this IRGC design as well.
 
Heard Russian also sent some planes but no official confirmation yet from major news source

Some reports indicated 5 Transport supplies from Russia have also arrived

It is just 1 hour away from Iran , russia I mean
 
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Emirzad said:
Very high firepower and AD for their sizes. IRIN (Regular navy) is still stuck with conventional Mowj class. I hope they adapt this IRGC design as well.
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Well the thing is , the Gulf of Arabia/Iran is quite narrow , for fat aircraft carrier it is the worse place to be
 
takayoshi said:
Is Trump negotiating with Iran to freeze nuclear ambitions, ballistic missile program and halting of execution of arrested individuals during the protests in exchange for sanctions relief? Will Iran agree?

Time Magazine reports 30k casualties during the Iran protests.
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No that will not happen Iran-Russia already have a plan for 20 more Nuclear reactors

Expecting fast track route now

Don't believe what Trump says , 95% of what he says is normally bluff , playing poker

He might have bit a bit more then he could chew this time around
 
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