CCS clears AMCA for IAF

[That_Guy]

F-22 is nowhere near the capability of F-35. For analogy, AMCA Mk.1 achieve F-22 like capability, Mk-2 able to like of F-35.

You comparing apple with oranges.

You're making claims on fighters that literally only exist on paper and miniature models right now.

You're also claiming that the KAAN is comparing itself to the F-22 and F-35, when in reality it is doing its own thing.

I'm not comparing apples to oranges, you are.

I'm literally the one telling you not to make comparisons.

 

[kaku]

You're making claims on fighters that literally only exist on paper and miniature models right now.

You're also claiming that the KAAN is comparing itself to the F-22 and F-35, when in reality it is doing its own thing.

I'm not comparing apples to oranges, you are.

I'm literally the one telling you not to make comparisons.

Okey. Kaan make its own criteria for Fifth gen. Fine.

 

[That_Guy]

Okey. Kaan make its own criteria for Fifth gen. Fine.

Other than the basics of every 5th gen, no two 5th gen is the same because every airforce has its own criteria.

Serious, just don't talk about this anymore. Multiple people are trying to correct you, so be humble.

 

[MirageBlue]

-
So you abdicatted your duty as a mod?

Secondly, by your analogy AMCA cant be compared with J-35 or J-20, but by god's grace J-35 and J-20 are automatically fifth generation.

Furthur, you have no idea how force-mix work, 4/4.5 gen fighters are going nowhere. If we start to adopt what you say, IAF start to get bankrupt within a decade.

Furthur, why its okey for China to develop L-15, but not for India?

JL-15..that itself exists because of designs that were shared by Yakovlev, which is why the JL-15 is sooo similar to the Yak-130 and M-346 (which is also a cousin of the Yak-130).

Leave alone the JL-15, check out the JL-9..MiG-21 genes anyone? In fact the J-9 is even more backward than what HAL is planning for the new trainer..same engine as the FT-7 and with the same mechanical controls! Not even a FBW for a trainer that has entered service with PLAAF just 8 years ago!

from Wikipedia

The FTC-2000 is developed from the JJ-7/FT-7, the two seat trainer version of the Chengdu J-7; the Chengdu J-7 is a Chinese variant of the MiG-21. The FTC-2000 uses a new wing, a forward fuselage with side air intakes, and a glass cockpit; the engine, empennage, and mechanical controls of the JJ-7/FT-7 are retained.[2]

And he's got a problem with Marut genes on the new HAL trainer.

 

[Oscar]

Tejas was the logical choice, you have to create manufacturing infrastructure for it.

You have to develop autoclaves, CNC machines etc,, and that havent happened without this program.

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But we’re not talking to Tejas - but rather what the AMCA will need in addition to the infra LCA program provided and then what works on the design in terms of cost/complexity.

 

[Oscar]

JL-15..that itself exists because of designs that were shared by Yakovlev, which is why the JL-15 is sooo similar to the Yak-130 and M-346 (which is also a cousin of the Yak-130).

Leave alone the JL-15, check out the JL-9..MiG-21 genes anyone? In fact the J-9 is even more backward than what HAL is planning for the new trainer..same engine as the FT-7 and with the same mechanical controls! Not even a FBW for a trainer that has entered service with PLAAF just 8 years ago!

from Wikipedia

And he's got a problem with Marut genes on the new HAL trainer.

Im sort of confused here - what is the link to the Yak design on the L-15 to the idea of the YAK-130 being a joint project with Italy?

Regardless of what the JL-9 is it is a requirements and price point selection for the PLAAF. How is that relevant to similarities in design for what HAL is looking to produce?

 

[no smoking]

In case of China, copying is not just skin deep....
They actually stole F-35 designs.
And they have a history for that. Stealing IPR that is.
So yes, its apt to call it out.

A fighter jet like F-35 involves over 10 thousands component supplied by over 500 vendors.
If Chinese can steal the whole design of F-35, basically, all employees of CIA and FBI should be fired.

 

[uucc001]

In case of China, copying is not just skin deep....
They actually stole F-35 designs.
And they have a history for that. Stealing IPR that is.
So yes, its apt to call it out.

BTW airframe design of KAI-KFX and TFX is also heavily "inspired" to an exact copy of F-35 in many aspect.
Last but not hte least India DID try a number of designs.

Indians always have an inexplicable sense of joy when speaking. Just because you are incapable of developing fifth-generation aircraft does not mean that the Chinese are incapable of developing fifth-generation aircraft. You said that China stole the design of the F35. Are you scolding the CIA and FIB for being idiots? Or is your country a loser? China can "steal" but your country cannot steal?China also has mid-stage anti-missile missiles. Can India try to follow suit?

中国陆基中段反导技术比美国如何？专家解读-新华网

中国陆基中段反导技术比美国如何？专家解读 ---

www.xinhuanet.com

 

[kaku]

But we’re not talking to Tejas - but rather what the AMCA will need in addition to the infra LCA program provided and then what works on the design in terms of cost/complexity.

Indeed, and they might have already begun to add, like this



This most probably go into RCS facility for checking RCS of AMCA in full scale model.

But you can’t build a VLO fighter and then fifth gen fighter without infrastructure needed for 4th and 4.5 gen fighter. That’s a must.

The risk in the AMCA program skyrocketed if we never had LCA program.

 

[BobBiswas]

A fighter jet like F-35 involves over 10 thousands component supplied by over 500 vendors.
If Chinese can steal the whole design of F-35, basically, all employees of CIA and FBI should be fired.

Which is indeed what MAGA folks are saying these days. To eliminate most of employees of FBI and CIA. Post cold war CIA is highly incompetent organization. And FBI has always been an incompetent orgranization. Look at presidential debates in USA.

 

[BobBiswas]

Indians always have an inexplicable sense of joy when speaking. Just because you are incapable of developing fifth-generation aircraft does not mean that the Chinese are incapable of developing fifth-generation aircraft. You said that China stole the design of the F35. Are you scolding the CIA and FIB for being idiots? Or is your country a loser? China can "steal" but your country cannot steal?China also has mid-stage anti-missile missiles. Can India try to follow suit?

中国陆基中段反导技术比美国如何？专家解读-新华网

中国陆基中段反导技术比美国如何？专家解读 ---

www.xinhuanet.com

FBI and CIA are incompetent post cold war. FBI has always been extremely incompetent at everything. They let 9/11 happen after having every evidence. You dont get any more incompetent than that with so much budget.

And yes, Chinese progress has been built around industrial espionage. Which is why none of their own designs work at all.

 

[uucc001]

FBI and CIA are incompetent post cold war. FBI has always been extremely incompetent at everything. They let 9/11 happen after having every evidence. You dont get any more incompetent than that with so much budget.

And yes, Chinese progress has been built around industrial espionage. Which is why none of their own designs work at all.

So you stole the American F35?Also, please explain, whose technology did the J20 steal?There is not a single word of truth in your entire article.

 

[uucc001]

So you stole the American F35?

FBI and CIA are incompetent post cold war. FBI has always been extremely incompetent at everything. They let 9/11 happen after having every evidence. You dont get any more incompetent than that with so much budget.

And yes, Chinese progress has been built around industrial espionage. Which is why none of their own designs work at all.

By the way, whose medium-voltage DC electromagnetic catapult was "stolen" from the Fujian aircraft carrier? Do you think the Chinese are the same as you? You Indians are so funny.

 

[MirageBlue]

Im sort of confused here - what is the link to the Yak design on the L-15 to the idea of the YAK-130 being a joint project with Italy?

Regardless of what the JL-9 is it is a requirements and price point selection for the PLAAF. How is that relevant to similarities in design for what HAL is looking to produce?

Yak-130 was the progenitor for the L-15 aka JL-10. Same layout, same engines, only some minor mods in the front fuselage, else it is nearly the same as the Yak-130.

As does the M-346 after Aermacchi decided to end it's partnership with Yakovlev. Aermacchi paid $77 million to Yakovlev for the engineering drawings of the trainer and there was a mutual understanding on which countries would be approached as customers by Aermacchi or Yakovlev.

Point was, the L-15 wasn't some majorly original Chinese trainer. It was basically built based on Yak-130's design.

JL-9 was designed for whatever the requirement and price point the PLAAF wanted. But to ignore it's MiG-21 heritage (heck even the same engine and mechanical controls as the JJ-7/FT-7) and then criticize HAL for choosing the Marut's layout, stating that why would anyone build a trainer based on a 1960s design, is patently hypocritical on the part of Deino.

If he wants to question HAL's HLFT-42 LIFT design, then why not point out what is so 5th gen about any of the trainers flying today? What about Hurjet? What is there in that design to make it any better than what is being proposed on the HLFT-42?

 

[Deino]

...

JL-9 was designed for whatever the requirement and price point the PLAAF wanted. But to ignore it's MiG-21 heritage (heck even the same engine and mechanical controls as the JJ-7/FT-7) and then criticize HAL for choosing the Marut's layout, stating that why would anyone build a trainer based on a 1960s design, is patently hypocritical on the part of Deino.

If he wants to question HAL's HLFT-42 LIFT design, then why not point out what is so 5th gen about any of the trainers flying today? What about Hurjet? What is there in that design to make it any better than what is being proposed on the HLFT-42?

Oh still touchy! Just for those who cannot or do not want to understand why I mocked the Marut-based trainer and left the JL-9 aside: Again - you surel ydon't want to hear it - this tiny old-fashioned HLFT-42 design is still a project only, a paper-project if you want while again the JL-9 is flying since December 2003 - aka since more than 20 years - and YES it is dated, outdated and no longer a reasonable jet-trainer for future generation fighter and their pilots.! Even the JL-10 just recently had its maiden flight in March 2006 - aka yesterday exactly 15 years ago!

You however portray the HLFT-42 as some sort of state-of the art trainer and start development NOW ... so when will it fly? When will it enter service? Like the AMCA in the mid-2030s!?

So in the end you correctly mock about the old JL-9, which the PLAAF is no longer introducing and I'm sure, steadily phasing out within the next decade, but India plans to deveop such a dated type right now! And again just look at the HAL HJT-36 Sitara, which is another such prolonged and de facto failed project! Why the heck should anyone expect the HLFT-42 will be succesful when do not get the smaller and less complex HJT-36 ready?