Indian Air Force News and Discussions ll

[side-winder]

Indian Air Force has lost another LCA Tejas [3rd Tejas Crash] in an accident earlier this month at a key air base when Tejas was landing after a training sortie.
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‎As per India's media outlet "Economic Times", the Tejas fleet is now undergoing extensive checks as investigations into the incident are underway.
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‎The airframe has been severely damaged & has been written off, however the pilot survived the crash.

It crashed earlier this month. Almost a good job at hiding another loss. Lol

 

[sutton9999]

I was suspecting this. Tejas has design issues, not rigid enough for a service role yet.

 

[Oracle]

Saw thread.
Thought another one crashed... Nothing happened.
Now am disappointed

So my assumption was correct. Another one down

 

[SABRE]

Third Tejas crashed today.

IAF critics here would say they deliberately crashed it to expedite the Rafale deal.

 

[Yasser76]

I said this project would die in 2025. These are now the final death throws,.

Something very very wrong here. IAF refusing to take delivery of 5 MK1As, claims it has not even passed missile integration tests and now a loss hidden for weeks.
3 crashes for a plane not even in full operational service yet.

This is going down as arguably the worst fighter programme in history, bar none.

 

[Yasser76]

So this leaves them with just 29 single seat IOC MK1s in service now right?

I cannot believe I am typing this but this programme has lost more aircraft then it has actually delivered in the last 2 years? 3 crashes and no new deliveries?

 

[TopGun786]

I said this project would die in 2025. These are now the final death throws,.

Something very very wrong here. IAF refusing to take delivery of 5 MK1As, claims it has not even passed missile integration tests and now a loss hidden for weeks.
3 crashes for a plane not even in full operational service yet.

This is going down as arguably the worst fighter programme in history, bar none.

Exactly.
Tejas program is dead.

 

[Yasser76]

Exactly.
Tejas program is dead.

Yes, completely. Died last year. Now it is just a case of how BJP/Modi try and spin this as not a failure.

The 180 off Tejas MK1As on order will obviously never see the light of day and my feeling is IAF even knew about this when placing the order.

Question is what happens next?

114 Rafale possibly ordered?
Go for Tejas MK2 or dump that too and pin all hopes on AMCA?

Rafale buy goes someway to stop the rot but nowhere near enough if their are no Tejas in the picture. These planes should have been delivered 20 years ago and IAF should be inducting 5th Gen by now.

I think we really underestimate the calamity IAF finds itself in.

Just from an attrition point of view they have lost over 21 frontline types (unsure if i can include Tejas as frontline but what the hell) in last 36 months from crashes and combat

4 Rafales
3 Tejas
3 SU-30s
3 Mirage 2000s
3 Jaguars
3 MIG-29s
2 MIG-21

21 frontline planes in 3 years. PAF has lost 4 of all types.

So just to maintain its current size IAF need to be inducting one brand new suadron every 3 years!

Now consider the fact then when the first new Rafales get delivered (and no deal has been signed yet), let us assume in 2030, best case and taking into account 5 years more of attrition IAF will have around

250 SU-30MKIs - 40 years old - no upgrades
100 Jaguars - 60 years old - limited upgrades
50 Mirage 2000 - 50 years old - upgraded
50 MIG-29s - 50 years old - upgraded

In all 450 planes that will need replacing (assuming no SU-30MKI upgrade). Even if they develop and initiate their very own upgrade for the SU-30MKI even HAL is stating 2035 as delivery date for first one.

114 Rafales will not solve this issue. Tejas dead and AMCA timeline will certainly be post 2035 (if at all). $37 Billion to France will eat most of IAF's procurement budget so SU-57 may be unlikely and funds for more AEW/Refullers probably scarce, which of course will hurst the ability to fully exploit the Rafales

 

[Ali_Baba]

Logically, right now, the IAF is better of cutting their losses on the Tejas, and re-orienting their focus on the AMCA, and chalk up the entire Tejas programme as a "learning experience".

They should focus on trying to make sure the AMCA programme goes smoothly now.

The IAF has a serious problem as it does not have a single engine light platform for the backbone of its fleet to do the bulk of commodity operations. India's options are limited in this space.

I bet India is kicking herself that she did not purchase the Mirage 2000 production line right about now. That would have solved their problems for sure. A Mirage 2000-9 is still a quite effective platform now.

The options are the Gripen-E(excellent platform), F16(F-21), F-35(= NO!) KAI F-50 etc. Su75 would make an excellent co-development project with the benefits of a single engine platform though it will take some time to mature.

They can try and bulk up on more new build Su-30MKI(or upgraded variants) to maintain squadron strength(Su57 will take time to spin up) but the Su-30MKI has proven to be very very ineffective against the PAF with 2 shot down over 2 military confrontations of 2019, and 2025.

Lets see what India does decide to do. Force planning is a real problem for the IAF right now.

 

[Yasser76]

Logically, right now, the IAF is better of cutting their losses on the Tejas, and re-orienting their focus on the AMCA, and chalk up the entire Tejas programme as a "learning experience".

They should focus on trying to make sure the AMCA programme goes smoothly now.

The IAF has a serious problem as it does not have a single engine light platform for the backbone of its fleet to do the bulk of commodity operations. India's options are limited in this space.

I bet India is kicking herself that she did not purchase the Mirage 2000 production line right about now. That would have solved their problems for sure. A Mirage 2000-9 is still a quite effective platform now.

The options are the Gripen-E(excellent platform), F16(F-21), KAI F-50 etc. Su75 would make an excellent co-development project with the benefits of a single engine platform though it will take some time to mature.

Lets see what India does decide to do. Force planning is a real problem for the IAF right now.

Taking the Mirage 2000 line would have solved many problems. They could have 200+ of those now, overhaul the airframes, do a better upgrade maybe with a French AESA and of course have an easy crossover to Rafale production.

Even if they throw in their lot of with AMCA we are talking 2040 till it can be flown, tested, ordered, operationalised, delivered and first squadron stood up. Similar issue with SU-30MKI upgrade.. 10 years plus from now

So basically from about right now till the first new Rafale is delivered IAF is dependant on just 32 (possibly 28 depending on who you believe about May 7th) Rafales for the next 5-6 years as very cutting edge tip of it's spear, and the only plane that can match F-16/J-10C/JF-17C in terms of BVR reach.

Naturally this has implications for strategy. They will want to husband these assets and keep them away from more losses. This may result in some breathing space now for Pak forces in a future conflict. Rather then try and take out PAF in the air, IAF will have to rely on long range missile attacks on PAF baes. No other options

 

[Khanviletey]

Wow so 32 built 12 FOC 3 crashed …….so it truly is Indians Against Flying (IAF)

……..29 in service with 6 trainers 16 FOC

What a joke

 

[hasssanali8998]

So my assumption was correct. Another one down

u felt in your bones lmao

 

[White Privilege]

It crashed earlier this month. Almost a good job at hiding another loss. Lol

Sshhh, they did not admit the loss because operation Sindoor is still ongoing....

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

Indian Air Force has lost another LCA Tejas [3rd Tejas Crash] in an accident earlier this month at a key air base when Tejas was landing after a training sortie.
‎
‎As per India's media outlet "Economic Times", the Tejas fleet is now undergoing extensive checks as investigations into the incident are underway.
‎
‎The airframe has been severely damaged & has been written off, however the pilot survived the crash.

Did the engine survived ?

 

[Khanviletey]

Did the engine survived ?

Yes dude I can’t understand how one of the worlds best engines GE F414, with an impeccable record is contiously failing in indian service

At some point it becomes a negative marketing thing for the US. Maybe they will restrict Tejas flying with thier engines. Something like you can turn the engine on in the aircraft, but only for ground taxi.