Operation Ghazab Lil Haq (Pakistan - Afghanistan War)

You can self identify as whatever you please, others are under no obligation to automatically accept it. Your description of Pashtun identity is very boiled down for whatever reason and the actual standard is different. You also don't seem to distinguish between being a Pashtun versus being of Pashtun-heritage, or the multi ethnic nature of KP.

Claiming that Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan were Pashtun COAS has very misleading connotations. There has never been a Pashtun from KP who became COAS. The number of Pashtuns, both from KP and Balochistan, in top posts in the Army historically can be counted on with your hands.
Ayub Khan:
14 May 1907
Rehana, North-West Frontier Province, British India
[th]
Born​
[/th]​
Rehana is a village and one of the 44 union councils, administrative subdivisions, of Haripur District in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province of Pakistan.

The largest village in the union council is Rehana village itself, which is renowned for being the birth- and resting place of Sardar Bahadur Khan and Field Marshal Muhammad Ayub Khan, who rose to prominence as a military dictator after his 1958 military coup.

It remains the home village of his family, which includes political figures like Gohar Ayub Khan, Yousuf Ayub Khan, Omar Ayub Khan, Arshad Ayub Khan. The indigenous tribe is Tareen. The word Rehana has etymological origin in Arabic word for 'Flower of Paradise'.

Ayub Khan was born on 14 May 1907 in Rehana, a village in the Haripur district of the North-West Frontier Province of British India into a Hindko-speaking Hazarewal family of Pashtun descent, belonging to the Tareen tribe.

Yahya Khan:
Agha Muhammad Yahya Khan was born on 4 February 1917 in the town of Chakwal, Punjab, British India. His family were written to be of Pashtun as well as Qizilbash origin and were descended from the elite soldiers of Iranian conqueror Nader Shah (r. 1736–1747). Yahya Khan also spoke Persian.
Few Pakistanis knew anything about Yahya Khan when he was vaulted into the presidency two years ago. The stocky, bushy–browed Pathan had been the army chief of staff since 1966... Yahya (pronounced Ya-hee-uh) Khan claims direct descent from warrior nobles who fought in the elite armies of Nader Shah, the Persian adventurer who conquered Delhi in the 18th century.
— Editorial, Time, 2 August 1971
 
Oh it matters a great deal which ethnicity is in command of the army in Pakistan, a country that has been ruled by the army since the 1950s. The approach Pakistan army has taken towards Afghanistan is but one example.
Zero introspection. Someone else is always the problem and you're the faultless victim.

The amount of leniency the army showed Afghanistan, no other country would show even 10%. This would have happened far earlier, many many years.

You are so deep in your own victim complex you don't realise in the entirety of the Taliban & TTP surviving, they've ironically only brought misery on your ethnicity by turning it into a insurgent zone where collateral is their main weapon of blackmail
 
Oh it matters a great deal which ethnicity is in command of the army in Pakistan, a country that has been ruled by the army since the 1950s. The approach Pakistan army has taken towards Afghanistan is but one example.
You are now sounding more and more like a Trump supporter convinced that his cult is the right one and finding every which way excuse to prove your point is correct without any actual proof.

Yes there is a Punjabi establishment - which lean into the overall establishment of this country - but that does not mean it has consistent influence on the ethnic background of the army chief all the time. The entire history of the COAS proves that.
 
You can self identify as whatever you please, others are under no obligation to automatically accept it. Your description of Pashtun identity is very boiled down for whatever reason and the actual standard is different. You also don't seem to distinguish between being a Pashtun versus being of Pashtun-heritage, or the multi ethnic nature of KP.

Claiming that Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan were Pashtun COAS has very misleading connotations. There has never been a Pashtun from KP who became COAS. The number of Pashtuns, both from KP and Balochistan, in top posts in the Army historically can be counted on with your hands.
Ayub Khan was from Rehana in Haripur. In that area , People are ethnic Pushtoon, but either speak Pure Hindko, or are Bi-Lingual and speak Pushto and Hindko.
 
You can self identify as whatever you please, others are under no obligation to automatically accept it. Your description of Pashtun identity is very boiled down for whatever reason and the actual standard is different. You also don't seem to distinguish between being a Pashtun versus being of Pashtun-heritage, or the multi ethnic nature of KP.

Claiming that Ayub Khan and Yahya Khan were Pashtun COAS has very misleading connotations. There has never been a Pashtun from KP who became COAS. The number of Pashtuns, both from KP and Balochistan, in top posts in the Army historically can be counted on with your hands.
So in other words, much like a Trump supporter or proper racist are now trying to use even genetic origin to justify pure bloods?
 
You are now sounding more and more like a Trump supporter convinced that his cult is the right one and finding every which way excuse to prove your point is correct without any actual proof.

Yes there is a Punjabi establishment - which lean into the overall establishment of this country - but that does not mean it has consistent influence on the ethnic background of the army chief all the time. The entire history of the COAS proves that.
To even frame the establishment as an ethnicity thing is stupid, it has many different factions that all compete.

Some are motivated by business interests, some are Islamists, some liberals, some indeed ethnic interest motivated. But this idea that like a group of Punjabis sit at a table running a Punjabi agenda is so funny because the Punjabi elites are one of the most corrupt and least ethnically conscious on the planet, they don't give a **** about no poor Punjabis lol. I'd argue Pashtun establishment members are far more ethnically motivated than their Punjabi counterparts who care about their temporary funds
 
To even frame the establishment as an ethnicity thing is stupid, it has many different factions that all compete.

Some are motivated by business interests, some are Islamists, some liberals, some indeed ethnic interest motivated. But this idea that like a group of Punjabis sit at a table running a Punjabi agenda is so funny because the Punjabi elites are one of the most corrupt and least ethnically conscious on the planet, they don't give a **** about no poor Punjabis lol. I'd argue Pashtun establishment members are far more ethnically motivated than their Punjabi counterparts who care about their temporary funds
There is an actual establishment.

It is a loose but powerful network of senior military leadership, bureaucracy, intelligence, parts of the judiciary, big business and aligned media. Over time it has developed its own institutional interests which often override the preferences of elected governments.

Yes, Historically, its core has had a predominantly Punjabi composition, especially in the higher ranks of the army and bureaucracy, partly because of colonial-era recruitment patterns, population share and better access to state institutions in Punjab. Over time, Urdu-speaking elites who were once very prominent in the early decades have been relatively diluted in this power structure. Pathans have their own significant presence, particularly in the officer corps and security apparatus, and Sindhis and others have also entered the fold depending on shifts in power and patronage. So while there is an ethnic pattern, ethnicity is just one factor and not the primary motivation in how the establishment behaves.

What really holds this establishment together is a shared outlook and set of red lines that go into both a security centric worldview, a particular idea of national identity, continuity of certain economic and foreign policy directions, and a desire to retain decisive influence even when civilians are nominally in charge. Individuals from different ethnic backgrounds can be absorbed into it as long as they align with these institutional priorities. That is why you can see politicians, judges and media figures from multiple provinces effectively working in sync with establishment preferences.

Because it is not a formal body, its influence shows up indirectly. Governments rise and fall based on how acceptable they are to this network. Policy U-turns, sudden corruption drives, media narratives and court decisions often make more sense when viewed through the lens of establishment interests than through party manifestos. At the same time, it is not omnipotent or a uniform entity; there are internal rivalries, generational differences and occasional miscalculations that backfire.

If you understand the establishment as this evolving coalition of institutions and elites, rather than just “the army” or just “Punjabis,” it becomes easier to see why the same patterns repeat across different parties and eras. Faces change, slogans change, and ethnic mix shifts at the margins, but the underlying logic of preserving control over key levers of power remains surprisingly consistent.


So If you are inherently someone with victim complex through upbringing/environment through early years coupled with racism and bias - then yes, you will NEVER understand this concept.
 
Please do not stop, and do not give back posts for atleast 5 years, until the new leadership sorted out.

Please no restraints, do not do half a@@ thing to mkae things worst for coming years.

We have tried all civilized options but all failed.

Allah Hamara hami o nasir ho.
 
There is an actual establishment.

It is a loose but powerful network of senior military leadership, bureaucracy, intelligence, parts of the judiciary, big business and aligned media. Over time it has developed its own institutional interests which often override the preferences of elected governments.

Yes, Historically, its core has had a predominantly Punjabi composition, especially in the higher ranks of the army and bureaucracy, partly because of colonial-era recruitment patterns, population share and better access to state institutions in Punjab. Over time, Urdu-speaking elites who were once very prominent in the early decades have been relatively diluted in this power structure. Pathans have their own significant presence, particularly in the officer corps and security apparatus, and Sindhis and others have also entered the fold depending on shifts in power and patronage. So while there is an ethnic pattern, ethnicity is just one factor and not the primary motivation in how the establishment behaves.

What really holds this establishment together is a shared outlook and set of red lines that go into both a security centric worldview, a particular idea of national identity, continuity of certain economic and foreign policy directions, and a desire to retain decisive influence even when civilians are nominally in charge. Individuals from different ethnic backgrounds can be absorbed into it as long as they align with these institutional priorities. That is why you can see politicians, judges and media figures from multiple provinces effectively working in sync with establishment preferences.

Because it is not a formal body, its influence shows up indirectly. Governments rise and fall based on how acceptable they are to this network. Policy U-turns, sudden corruption drives, media narratives and court decisions often make more sense when viewed through the lens of establishment interests than through party manifestos. At the same time, it is not omnipotent or a uniform entity; there are internal rivalries, generational differences and occasional miscalculations that backfire.

If you understand the establishment as this evolving coalition of institutions and elites, rather than just “the army” or just “Punjabis,” it becomes easier to see why the same patterns repeat across different parties and eras. Faces change, slogans change, and ethnic mix shifts at the margins, but the underlying logic of preserving control over key levers of power remains surprisingly consistent.


So If you are inherently someone with victim complex through upbringing/environment through early years coupled with racism and bias - then yes, you will NEVER understand this concept.
Lest someone interpret this as some sort of dysfunction in Pakistan, this is the general pattern of things in most countries. Especially smaller ones. Very large or well-established countries (like China, India, USA, UK, Russia) tend to operate like coalitions of interests.
 
There is an actual establishment.

It is a loose but powerful network of senior military leadership, bureaucracy, intelligence, parts of the judiciary, big business and aligned media. Over time it has developed its own institutional interests which often override the preferences of elected governments.

Yes, Historically, its core has had a predominantly Punjabi composition, especially in the higher ranks of the army and bureaucracy, partly because of colonial-era recruitment patterns, population share and better access to state institutions in Punjab. Over time, Urdu-speaking elites who were once very prominent in the early decades have been relatively diluted in this power structure. Pathans have their own significant presence, particularly in the officer corps and security apparatus, and Sindhis and others have also entered the fold depending on shifts in power and patronage. So while there is an ethnic pattern, ethnicity is just one factor and not the primary motivation in how the establishment behaves.

What really holds this establishment together is a shared outlook and set of red lines that go into both a security centric worldview, a particular idea of national identity, continuity of certain economic and foreign policy directions, and a desire to retain decisive influence even when civilians are nominally in charge. Individuals from different ethnic backgrounds can be absorbed into it as long as they align with these institutional priorities. That is why you can see politicians, judges and media figures from multiple provinces effectively working in sync with establishment preferences.

Because it is not a formal body, its influence shows up indirectly. Governments rise and fall based on how acceptable they are to this network. Policy U-turns, sudden corruption drives, media narratives and court decisions often make more sense when viewed through the lens of establishment interests than through party manifestos. At the same time, it is not omnipotent or a uniform entity; there are internal rivalries, generational differences and occasional miscalculations that backfire.

If you understand the establishment as this evolving coalition of institutions and elites, rather than just “the army” or just “Punjabis,” it becomes easier to see why the same patterns repeat across different parties and eras. Faces change, slogans change, and ethnic mix shifts at the margins, but the underlying logic of preserving control over key levers of power remains surprisingly consistent.


So If you are inherently someone with victim complex through upbringing/environment through early years coupled with racism and bias - then yes, you will NEVER understand this concept.
Yes, my tweet was a simplified version of this.

Unfortunately the dominant narrative that exists in the social domain will always be more important than actual facts and perhaps you can't really get rid of that innate tribalistic loyalties.

But the level of outright lies accompanied with it and complete wilful ignorance is at another level, it's just manufacturing a false reality to feed a victim complex
 
The more I read about this conflict the more I realize that if Pakistan did not have strong armed forces then what Pakistan is doing right now to the Afghans is what the neighbor to the east would have done to Pakistan. Really shows the importance of a strong and modern Armed forces not to say battle hardened.
 
Things escalating...

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let them come - the boys will make mince meat out of these Monkeys.
 

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