Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[VCheng]

What are the Americans or israelis willing to negotiate on, that Iranians can accept?

In fact, the framing of your statement suggests the Americans and israelis have a valid negotiation to begin with? I don't know why don't you elaborate on this

What each side would be willing to negotiate on will depend on who, if anyone, is able to gain the upper hand to be able to negotiate from a position of strength. That is all war does - to give one's side a stronger position at the table.

Whether that strength is with Iran or USA remains to be seen, and hence too early to talk about what each side may or may not be willing to accept.

 

[r3alist]

how long will China watch one of its principal sources of cheap oil so crucial for the double digit growth and industrial effort get confiscated for at least a generation by its main competitor, is today's billion-dollar geopolitical question. If there isn't *one* strategic analyst within their *entire* state apparatus able to tell the higher echelons to effing move from their pathetic spectating posture and act like a nation truly contemplating a global superpower role, then they deserve to remain a sub-par regional actor for the remainder of the century. Part of a nation becoming a superpower is to boast a number of true visionary architects of foreign policy.

The US had Brzezinski, Kissinger, the USSR had Gromyko. China, by its current lack of political courage and initiative, and assuming that catastrophe of a non-stance remains their posture for the whole duration of the war and god forbid Iran breaks as a country, shall end up watching the consequences that will reverberate and will be taught as their single biggest strategic blunder of the century in every of their foreign policy papers, academies and circles published for 50 years to come. Akin to the 2003 Invasion of Irak by Bush Jr. I honestly don't feel i'm overstating this.

And "the need to balance cordial relations with the GCC" does not stand the test of the current existential conflict for Iran. Prioritizing them is one thing, dropping Iran so casually as some sort of toxic asset is completely another.

The GCC are and will remain core US satellites at the end of the day, even if the KSA has timidly ventured a bit further away relative to the other micro-states, but will listen to America whenever they throw a tantrum at a given geopolitical juncture. There will always be a hard limit to what they can do with them, same with Turkey on NATO's side. IF they can't see it, they aren't even worthy to be considered serious players at scale, period.

PS : thanks for the warm welcome @Persian Gulf and @shapurzolaktaf , + all others who reacted positively. We're all in this together even from outside. I truly appreciate.

If Iran wanted Chinese help the time to do it was years ago

The Chinese have no reason to jump in as a savior for Iran at this stage, there is no ethnic or cultural or strategic aim that would justify right now

Ever since world war 2 I don't know why people don't understand this. Look at all the wars since 9/11 I am sure each stage people said why don't the Russians jump in


Then recently with Syria everyone said why did the Russians leave?

The point is you can only do so much without compromising your own integrity and strength


Let us also say this, with nation states even when you help someone you are mindful to the extent that one day they can become more powerful and influential than you might be comfortable with

That is not anti Iranian that is just the calculus of real politik, and selfish nation state's.

 

[hussain0216]

Iran can continue until it realizes that negotiations are the only way out. (The same holds true for the opposing side as well.)

After all, all wars end at the negotiating table, sooner or later.

The USA and Zionists are entirely untrustworthy

They have used negotiations to kill and murder and strike at leaders and opponents

What's the point of negotiations with such a state and people?

 

[Hayabusa]

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Nice. Need more of such attacks on Tel Aviv.

Following up on this.

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[MS Sandhu]

The Iranians have a deep history of power and empire.

Let's not go there.

History can't save Iran.
Contrarily, it's enemies are just a century old or two.

 

[RescueRanger]

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You know some may see thisnas a sign of Qayamat.

“Then watch for the Day when the sky will bring forth a visible smoke, enveloping the people. This is a painful punishment.” (Quran 44:10–11)

Muslims everywhere should repent especially considering its Ramzan.

 

[VCheng]

What's the point of negotiations with such a state and people?

That is a question for the parties to the conflict to answer.

 

[r3alist]

What each side would be willing to willing to negotiate on will depend on who, if anyone, is able to gain the upper hand to be able to negotiate from a position of strength. That is all war does - to give one's side a stronger position at the table.

Whether that strength is with Iran or USA remains to be seen, and hence too early to talk about what each side may or may not be willing to accept.

But the question was, what is the valid framing of American or Israeli demands?
Trump has just said that he wants to choose the next Iranian leadership


If you mean ultimately the powerful will have more ability to negotiate okay fine, who does not know that?

But can you elaborate on what a valid negotiation actually is, otherwise it is just abstract truisms

 

[maverick]

This asymmetric warfare will lead Iran to make a bomb. i wont be surprised that they will make nuke incase ground next 3 to 4 weeks out of 480kg UF6 they have

 

[r3alist]

Let's not go there.

History can't save Iran.
Contrarily, it's enemies are just a century old or two.

I never said it would save them, I said that it will dominate the mindset of Iran and Iranians

They had a 10-year bloody war with Iraq as well.


If you understand this then you will not be Framing in the way you are

 

[MS Sandhu]

That is a question for the parties to the conflict to answer.

Then why are you wasting the bandwidth?
Throwing open ended statements here and there doesn't serve any purpose

 

[Bengal71]

The issue is that the supplies worldwide are running low to start off with. There is also the ongoing war in Ukraine that needs them as well.

You cannot get what is not immediately available.

They can't be produced in great numbers either, probably can't be produced at all since there is a rare earth ban from China.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

Iran has no path to survival other than establishing a war leadership system through national mobilization and a strong government, becoming a military state like Yemen.
Pursuing economic growth without establishing security is meaningless; it will all be blown away by bombing and end.
Establishing security comes first, then the economy.
Iran got this sequence wrong and ended up in an irreversible situation.
Neither North Korea nor Pakistan made this mistake in sequence.
Iran must follow Yemen and North Korea's example, dig underground tunnels beneath cities, relocate hospitals, schools, and factories underground, and fortify the entire nation.
Both the GCC and the United States fear most that a combat ready nation like Yemen, reborn as Iran, will reign over the Strait of Hormuz as an eternal enemy.
Therefore, only when Iran resolutely advances its project to transform into a military state will they seriously consider genuine negotiations to stop it.

Ditto! I said national mobilization last time around. It is D day already. The pacificists cannot save the day... they live in what could be... chasing a utopia... the real world throws real bombs and takes away your right of freedom, water, your identity, civilization and faith.
Iran hasn't attacked another nation before US became a state! Yet war found its way because a tiny parasite from Europe came to rule!

 

[codeforfood]

We can but wait and see. Both sides know this war cannot last for too long, and will eventually need to come to the negotiating table, sooner or later.

In my opinion, bringing Israel and usa to the negotiating table means Iran has achieved something. Of course they need some guarantors who matters to be present on that negotiating table for outcomes and agreements to hold.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

93 , 193 or even 1093 million
That doesn't matter.
What matters most is their industrial backbone to mount destruction on enemy while having the capacity to absorb the same from enemy.
Iran neither has the capability to bring the proportional fire power to battlefield nor the capacity to absorb that firepower of enemy.

For enemies, it's a war of choice
For Iran, in just 8 days, it has become a war of survival.
So again at this rate, in my assessment, Iran will have to make compromises in a month or two.

are you for real?
dude, how old are you?