Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

You'd probably know better then

Imagine being this childish over someone kindly asking you to explain your side of things rather than just saying "I flew with X". Talk about toxic.

Pointless presence on this forum if you aren't going to actually engage and just boast and be dismissive.

 

[Ibbi32]

Not this again, 100+ missiles per base. How many launch platforms they have?

But sir IN can target masroor and faisal airbase with 100+ brahmos in potential first strike. These are indespensible bases for Southern command assuming PN,marines and PAF EW can take out 40-50% which i think is reasonable could these airbases survive and be combat effective after potential 50 brahmos strikes?

 

[Raider 21]

Imagine being this childish over someone kindly asking you to explain your side of things rather than just saying "I flew with X". Talk about toxic.

Pointless presence on this forum if you aren't going to actually engage and just boast and be dismissive.

I can't imagine. You'd probably know better then sir

 

[AeronautIR]

They're not going to ground the PAF indefinitely but in the current situation, they can make it hell by just hitting runways and taxiways all day long. 2-3 impacts a day on the runways of Sargodha, Bholari, Jacobabad, Kamra etc. will be more than enough. Assuming a short conflict of 2-3 weeks fought purely in the air.

Mate, there was a long debate on exactly this topic a couple of months back. This can't be done by India unless Pakistan decides not to retaliate. Now if we are going towards satellite imagery discussion and assumption that Pakistan didn't hit Indian targets, it has been thrashed enough.

 

[AeronautIR]

I am sure this is true, but what good is the forum if you just state this without putting forward your own side of the analysis?

I hope you know the average person here is not someone special in the defence sector or military.

Can't do it every other month mate. You should check the previous discussions. A new member asks the same question and demands the answer to a hypothetical threat inflation. 100+ missiles per base is not a realistic scenario of future conflict. I have already told it in detail literally 10 times. Lastly, the average person here may not be someone special in defence sector or military, but they sure feel like their threat perception of future Indo-Pak conflict is spot on. One of the esteemed members told us to wake up and smell the coffee as India will launch a million missiles and drones next time for taking out PAF.

 

[AeronautIR]

But sir IN can target masroor and faisal airbase with 100+ brahmos in potential first strike. These are indespensible bases for Southern command assuming PN,marines and PAF EW can take out 40-50% which i think is reasonable could these airbases survive and be combat effective after potential 50 brahmos strikes?

IN will have to come within 400 km of Karachi for that. The PAF maritime role sqn of JF-17 blk 3 with C-802 and CM-400 AKG anti-ship missiles at Masroor is to counter that. Not to mention the PN presence in Arabian Sea too.

 

[MirageV3ff]

Nope, done with this mature debate since May. You can continue with this alarmist attitude. I am sure India can't do what you are imagining.

The claims aren't unfounded in my opinion. The Indians will have an opening day salvo on Pakistani military installations especially PAF ones.

The Indians would want to make sure the PAF is grounded in the next conflict as it will be a short high intensity conflict

What we saw back in May was a limited exchange. We don't have the same level of SHORAD coverage and our airspace was ripe with Harops that did effect operations of a few airbases.

Looking at how Iran is conducting it's operations against CENTCOM. The Indians can do a similar thing. The Indians have a the geographical depth, magazine depth and deeper pockets than us. That's enough reason to have a gloomy outlook

Sure it won't be a million missiles or even a thousand but enough to saturate your airspace and actually disrupt operations.

 

[AeronautIR]

The claims aren't unfounded in my opinion. The Indians will have an opening day salvo on Pakistani military installations especially PAF ones.

The Indians would want to make sure the PAF is grounded in the next conflict as it will be a short high intensity conflict

What we saw back in May was a limited exchange. We don't have the same level of SHORAD coverage and our airspace was ripe with Harops that did effect operations of a few airbases.

Looking at how Iran is conducting it's operations against CENTCOM. The Indians can do a similar thing. The Indians have a the geographical depth, magazine depth and deeper pockets than us. That's enough reason to have a gloomy outlook

Sure it won't be a million missiles or even a thousand but enough to saturate your airspace and actually disrupt operations.

New SHORADS induction, dispersal plans and other such measures are already being taken. The intelligence agencies know about the actual threat matrix. Ajit Doval has claimed to be a RAW agent inside Pakistan and we must have our assets there. Point is that the top military brass on both sides has many sources to gauge the actual enemy capability, while we only have open sources. For the past 6 months, each and every scenario has been war gamed. I actually believe that Indians can't practically achieve it but it is ok if members don't agree with me. After 2019, both sides prepared for the next conflict that came in 2025. So people won't be sitting idle since May.

 

[Ak01]

@AeronautIR came from there, has flown with them extensively and is quite knowledgeable with regards to warfare, not to mention coming from a big family of active fighter pilots (including himself). He does have a much better idea than most of us here.

You and i being type rated on the 737 does not make us experts on its design, construction or components.

Nor does it give us access, or knowledge/insight into discussions that occur in the boardroom.

Why does being an armed forces member come with the assumption that they know it all and would be privy to details beyond their paygrade is above me.



We live in the west, and enjoy the accountability of our govts and their organisations, yet for Pakistan we must take everything at face value and never question a thing because our overlords know better. How did that work out in bangladesh?

 

[Ak01]

The claims aren't unfounded in my opinion. The Indians will have an opening day salvo on Pakistani military installations especially PAF ones.

The Indians would want to make sure the PAF is grounded in the next conflict as it will be a short high intensity conflict

What we saw back in May was a limited exchange. We don't have the same level of SHORAD coverage and our airspace was ripe with Harops that did effect operations of a few airbases.

Looking at how Iran is conducting it's operations against CENTCOM. The Indians can do a similar thing. The Indians have a the geographical depth, magazine depth and deeper pockets than us. That's enough reason to have a gloomy outlook

Sure it won't be a million missiles or even a thousand but enough to saturate your airspace and actually disrupt operations.

Are we sure it wont even be a thousand?

Just one of their players, Solar, has inaugurated a new production facility with an output of 10,000 LM's per year!

Thats just one of the literally dozens of startups in the space churning out loitering munition designs at an absurd pace.

We can talk about shorads all we like, but the only options available to us are obscure or low production run kit, where there will HAVE to be a lead time for procurement of new interceptors. Instead, lets go and build new fancy buildings to display dummy models. NASTP amirite.

Anyway, remember, all scenarios wargamed, the PAF expected all this to happen, thats why an erieye took hits and we lost some seriously important men.

but no, our overlords know better.

 

[puttputt]

For ASW? Personally I wanted them to standardize around the AW-139

I wonder how the PAF and PN got the Fennecs in the first place. It may not have been direct from Airbus Helicopters (due to the state of Pak-French defence ties at the moment).

If it’s through commercial channels, which is what I suspect, then IMO the PN’s next ASW/AShW helicopter will also be as well. Decent probability that some used S-70is will be picked up and modded at Turkish Aerospace.

 

[Ak01]

I wonder how the PAF and PN got the Fennecs in the first place. It may not have been direct from Airbus Helicopters (due to the state of Pak-French defence ties at the moment).

If it’s through commercial channels, which is what I suspect, then IMO the PN’s next ASW/AShW helicopter will also be as well. Decent probability that some used S-70is will be picked up and modded at Turkish Aerospace.

otoh, i dont think as350s are going be significant enough for the french to put a hold on them, the french are like the china of europe lol, they still provide kit for JF-17s!

 

[Sparten]

You have none of these advantages because Balochis tan has been made unstable by a mistake of your own doings helped along generously by India, US(right hand not knowing what the left does), European nations and other "brotherly" nations.

There has been zero impact on Air forces operation in Balochistan. Turbat is the main base for MPA now.

 

[TallGuy]

@AeronautIR

Under the context of perceived opening salvos by Indian Military SSCMs, i request you do Vlog on what you had noticed the deployment and employment pattern even the size of solvos.

I am sure the batteries are forwarded deployed and each mission was of 6 x Brahmos at single target area in 2025 conflict.

we need somebody to dissect land based Brahmos operations in 2025 Conflict for better understanding.

As a start i have gathered information on GL-SSCM "Brahmos"

at the moment they have 4 regiments operation with 20 x TELs and 12 x C2 Vehicles.

2 x TEL/6 x Brahmos, 1 x C2 (Group)
2 x TEL/6 x Brahmos, 1 x C2 (Group)
1 x TEL/3 x Brahmos, 1 x C2 (Independent/reserve)

That is a breakup of Single regiment

 

[PakShaheen_79]

Are we sure it wont even be a thousand?

Just one of their players, Solar, has inaugurated a new production facility with an output of 10,000 LM's per year!

Thats just one of the literally dozens of startups in the space churning out loitering munition designs at an absurd pace.

We can talk about shorads all we like, but the only options available to us are obscure or low production run kit, where there will HAVE to be a lead time for procurement of new interceptors. Instead, lets go and build new fancy buildings to display dummy models. NASTP amirite.

Anyway, remember, all scenarios wargamed, the PAF expected all this to happen, thats why an erieye took hits and we lost some seriously important men.

but no, our overlords know better.

Spot on!
It is cultural thing than tatical or operational that we are in a situation where enemy despite losing more than half a dozen aircraft on May 7 was able to hit us so badly next two days because they knew we don't have any platform or weapon to hit them back in similar manner (Lack of heavies with 6-8K payload capacity and a weapon in class of Hammer, SCLAP, Brahmos, Rampage etc.) so they took full advantage. Rising of Rocket Force and testing of Taimur just months after this conflict tells a lot. Problem is even these measures will not fulfill the challenge of creating conventional deterrence and there is a reason to believe that India will initiate next round in next 2-3 years. All our major inductions are half way mark at best (J-10Cs 20 only, HQ-9 only 1 or 2 batteries, SHORADs yet to be procured, Nothing for Mid-Rage SAM coverage) and with our current economic profile it is going to take a long time before PAF will be able to achieve true Multi-Domain capabilities.