Hopefully Pessimistic
Registered Member
Iranian embassy in India affirms that Kashmir is Indian
Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion
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Hopefully Pessimistic
Registered Member
Who cares why Arabs choose to be weak anyway? Let them worry about that, not really Pakistan's concern, I'm sure they have their reasons for that like protecting their monarchiesSo the obvious question is, why are the Gulfies and Saudi Arabia so weak? Aside from offering money to all and sundry (including Talibs and Indians), what actual use are they? If a nation pumps funds into the coffers of our enemies and us at the same time, why should preferential treatment be expected for said nation?
Afghanistan: How do the Taliban make money?
The Taliban maintain a sophisticated financial network and taxation system to generate income.www.bbc.co.uk
If one considers this rationally, then the natural course of all things becomes self evident.
Hulagu cursed the defeated Vizier of Baghdad for not spending on his military after he overran the Abbasids.
The Ottomans did not hesitate to annex the Hejaz for themselves in the 15th century.
I maintain that Arabs are compromised as a nation due to their self induced state of abject military despondency, as they have been for a century now.
Pakistan is expected to sustain and offer life support for a failed nation? A failed nation that funds our enemies as much as it does us?
There are better alternatives.
Pakistan should only assess whether the relation is a net-benefit to us and to what extent to make certain requests justifiable
Master Chief
Trusted Member
this is what matters.
Master Chief
Trusted Member
Some neighbours never learn do they?
Pakistan may well be Pakistan's only hope for redemption. It's a pity we didn't realise that in 1947.
Oscar
Moderator
Appreciated.
Unfortunately this will be lost in 3 days and it’ll go right back to “fauj is great,” “Imran is great,” “Maryam is great” sloganeering, with everyone obsessed with their own Mutiny on the Bounty fantasy while forgetting it is all the same ship and everyone is still trapped on it. The tragedy is that people keep acting as if wrecking one part of the vessel somehow saves the rest, when in reality the institutional decay, dishonesty, and hero worship run across the whole system.
Nobody wants to admit that Pakistan’s real crisis is not just one party, one leader, or one institution, but a political culture where personality cults replace serious thought and every camp wants accountability only for its enemies. So the cycle just repeats: slogans over substance, outrage over reflection, and short term point scoring over any long term national sanity.
Oscar
Moderator
You are presenting this like Pakistan only gave and the Gulf only took, which is a very selective reading of the relationship. The problem with that framing is that it turns a transactional, often unequal arrangement into a morality play where Pakistan is the noble victim, when in reality Pakistan has also repeatedly depended on Gulf patronage to stay financially and politically afloat.
After all, what about:
- Repeated loans, deposits, and deferred oil facilities that helped Pakistan avoid deeper balance-of-payments crises.
- Financial bailouts and cash injections at moments when Pakistan was diplomatically isolated or economically cornered.
- A labor market that absorbed millions of Pakistani workers and generated remittances that became a lifeline for Pakistan’s economy even as many of these workers also brought in drugs and crime into the kingdom(not to mention letting Afghanis engaging in drug trade under Pakistani passports)
- Long-term political and strategic cover for Pakistan in parts of the broader Muslim world, even if that support was always based on Gulf interests first.
- Investment, aid, and patronage networks that Pakistan’s own ruling class has relied on for decades, even while publicly pretending the relationship is based on “brotherhood.”
The second issue is that a lot of Pakistanis are still emotionally reacting to a Gulf order that no longer exists. After King Faisal, the center of gravity in the Gulf shifted much more openly toward regime survival, Western security partnerships, petrodollar alignment, and hard interest politics. Pakistanis in general never really understood that shift, and much of the Pakistani state only understood it in fragments. So people keep acting as if another display of loyalty, another security favor, or another appeal to Islamic solidarity will finally produce deep strategic reciprocity, when the Gulf has long since shown that it will prioritize whoever best serves its current interests.
So while you are trying to make a point , it is easy to break its "legs" and turn it around against your understanding of pretty much all of it. The Gulf will not “respect” Pakistan because Pakistan once sent pilots, troops, guards, or laborers. It will respect Pakistan when Pakistan has institutional stability, economic relevance, skilled human capital, and something beyond manpower to offer. Until then, outrage over how the Gulf views Pakistan is a bit naive, because states do not reward sentiment but rather strength, utility, and leverage... which is what those 200+ nuclear weapons are and ONLY are.
Mighty_Dragon_Strike
Trusted Member
of course, personal opinions are personal (far from truth!)
my opinions could be wrong as well (bec. after all they are only opinion, strangely, here, only Im open to such an admission unlike my antagonist as if anybody disagrees they dont belong in the society)
this becomes problematic, when:
1. personal opinion favor one side of the history
2. are grounded in such a way, which dont allow healthy and critical debate
(and are written in way to deflect respon. on the different factions of the society!)
3. essentially, such opinions sound like, one and only version of truth!
this is not an indication of healthy society, rather, such behavior results from deep rooted hatred for opposing views. There is no place for hatred in a modern developed society.
lightning f57
Trusted Member
If one thing positive can come out of this, I hope its seriousness and crystal clarity from Pak government and Chinese government to get this CPEC corridor hustling and bustling with economic activity. Pak sits in a great place to help with transportation of resources and goods through ME and central Asia.
Watandar
Trusted Member
Off topic but transportation from where to where ? Problem with cpec is a shoot first ask questions later approach. We were first told CPEC will be used to transport goods from western China, the Xinkiang region particularly to global markets. But goods made in Xinkiang have been under western sanctions and the Karakoram highway is too fragile, hence that traffic never materialized.
The backup Chinese idea was mineral rich Afghanistan and to use CPEC for that to export, but that seems too difficult for both Taliban and GHQ to understand.
An interesting discussion that probably deserves it own thread, why CPEC has been a failure so far.
hasssanali8998
Elite Member
pov u try to explain to pakistanis that security of pakistan is above IRAN and KSA .
mythbuster
SpeedLimited
It's like cursing chihuahua for not becoming a bulldog since he's well fed and pampered.So the obvious question is, why are the Gulfies and Saudi Arabia so weak? Aside from offering money to all and sundry (including Talibs and Indians), what actual use are they? If a nation pumps funds into the coffers of our enemies and us at the same time, why should preferential treatment be expected for said nation?
Afghanistan: How do the Taliban make money?
The Taliban maintain a sophisticated financial network and taxation system to generate income.
If one considers this rationally, then the natural course of all things becomes self evident.
Hulagu cursed the defeated Vizier of Baghdad for not spending on his military after he overran the Abbasids.
The Ottomans did not hesitate to annex the Hejaz for themselves in the 15th century.
I maintain that Arabs are compromised as a nation due to their self induced state of abject military despondency, as they have been for a century now.
Pakistan is expected to sustain and offer life support for a failed nation? A failed nation that funds our enemies as much as it does us?
There are better alternatives.
Tom_Cruise
Registered Member
Not a single Saudi soldier or pilot will ever set foot in Pakistan to defend it. They would never give their life for Pakistan, a country and people they consider vastly inferior to them. This pact is a one-way agreement because they know Pakistanis are willing to die for the 'holy land'. We are expendable.
hasssanali8998
Elite Member
their SRBM's are VERY accurate .
dont u remember that qatar strike in june
or the various strike son gcc bses in this war
