Pakistan-Saudi Arabia mutual defense pact: News & Discussion

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

Iranian embassy in India affirms that Kashmir is Indian

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[Hopefully Pessimistic]

So the obvious question is, why are the Gulfies and Saudi Arabia so weak? Aside from offering money to all and sundry (including Talibs and Indians), what actual use are they? If a nation pumps funds into the coffers of our enemies and us at the same time, why should preferential treatment be expected for said nation?

Afghanistan: How do the Taliban make money?

The Taliban maintain a sophisticated financial network and taxation system to generate income.

www.bbc.co.uk

If one considers this rationally, then the natural course of all things becomes self evident.

Hulagu cursed the defeated Vizier of Baghdad for not spending on his military after he overran the Abbasids.

The Ottomans did not hesitate to annex the Hejaz for themselves in the 15th century.

I maintain that Arabs are compromised as a nation due to their self induced state of abject military despondency, as they have been for a century now.

Pakistan is expected to sustain and offer life support for a failed nation? A failed nation that funds our enemies as much as it does us?

There are better alternatives.

Who cares why Arabs choose to be weak anyway? Let them worry about that, not really Pakistan's concern, I'm sure they have their reasons for that like protecting their monarchies

Pakistan should only assess whether the relation is a net-benefit to us and to what extent to make certain requests justifiable

 

[Master Chief]

Who cares why Arabs choose to be weak anyway? Let them worry about that, not really Pakistan's concern, I'm sure they have their reasons for that like protecting their monarchies

Pakistan should only assess whether the relation is a net-benefit to us and to what extent to make certain requests justifiable

this is what matters.

 

[Master Chief]

Iranian embassy in India affirms that Kashmir is Indian

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Some neighbours never learn do they?

Pakistan may well be Pakistan's only hope for redemption. It's a pity we didn't realise that in 1947.

 

[Oscar]

Great post Oscar , it cuts right through the core of our problems.. keep it up.

Appreciated.

Unfortunately this will be lost in 3 days and it’ll go right back to “fauj is great,” “Imran is great,” “Maryam is great” sloganeering, with everyone obsessed with their own Mutiny on the Bounty fantasy while forgetting it is all the same ship and everyone is still trapped on it. The tragedy is that people keep acting as if wrecking one part of the vessel somehow saves the rest, when in reality the institutional decay, dishonesty, and hero worship run across the whole system.

Nobody wants to admit that Pakistan’s real crisis is not just one party, one leader, or one institution, but a political culture where personality cults replace serious thought and every camp wants accountability only for its enemies. So the cycle just repeats: slogans over substance, outrage over reflection, and short term point scoring over any long term national sanity.

 

[Oscar]

This is unrequited love for Gulfies by confused and irrational Pakistanis. Below is a list of the services provided by Pakistan to these Gulfies in the last 60 years :

• Volunteer pilots sent to fly in Arab air forces in 1967 and 1973 war
• Pakistani troops joining Jordanians to kill Palestinians to keep Monarchy in power in Jordan 1970
• Pakistani soldiers stationed in Saudi Arabia as bodyguards of Al Saud 1980 to present
• 15k Pakistani soldiers sent to protect Saudi Arabia in Gulf War 1
• Pakistani soldiers and mercenaries stationed in Gulf to be bodyguards of their monarchs 1990 to present
• Pakistani mercenaries used to suppress local population during Arab Spring in 2011, especially in Bahrain
• Low paid Pakistani labor used for construction in entire GCC 1970 to present.

Despite all these contributions the GCC merely looks at Pakistan as hired help and prioritizes its relationships with the West, India, East Asia and Israel. So the idea that if one more time Pakistan rushes and saves these Arab monarchs, they will shower all these benefits on Pakistan is very unlikely.

The Gulf will respect Pakistan when the country has political stability, institutional rule, an economy worth investing in and a labor force capable of doing more than just manual tasks. The old approach of providing manual labor and security personnel for Westerners and Gulfies is maxxed out.

You are presenting this like Pakistan only gave and the Gulf only took, which is a very selective reading of the relationship. The problem with that framing is that it turns a transactional, often unequal arrangement into a morality play where Pakistan is the noble victim, when in reality Pakistan has also repeatedly depended on Gulf patronage to stay financially and politically afloat.

After all, what about:

• Repeated loans, deposits, and deferred oil facilities that helped Pakistan avoid deeper balance-of-payments crises.
  
  
• Financial bailouts and cash injections at moments when Pakistan was diplomatically isolated or economically cornered.
  
  
• A labor market that absorbed millions of Pakistani workers and generated remittances that became a lifeline for Pakistan’s economy even as many of these workers also brought in drugs and crime into the kingdom(not to mention letting Afghanis engaging in drug trade under Pakistani passports)
  
  
• Long-term political and strategic cover for Pakistan in parts of the broader Muslim world, even if that support was always based on Gulf interests first.
  
  
• Investment, aid, and patronage networks that Pakistan’s own ruling class has relied on for decades, even while publicly pretending the relationship is based on “brotherhood.”

So yes, the Gulf has often treated Pakistanis as hired help. But Pakistan also kept showing up as hired help, whether through cheap labor, military manpower, or political dependency, because that was easier than fixing its own economy or building real leverage. That is the part people conveniently leave out. Before turning this into a grievance rant about Gulf disrespect, there should be some honesty about how much of Pakistan’s own state and elite behavior helped create this dynamic.

The second issue is that a lot of Pakistanis are still emotionally reacting to a Gulf order that no longer exists. After King Faisal, the center of gravity in the Gulf shifted much more openly toward regime survival, Western security partnerships, petrodollar alignment, and hard interest politics. Pakistanis in general never really understood that shift, and much of the Pakistani state only understood it in fragments. So people keep acting as if another display of loyalty, another security favor, or another appeal to Islamic solidarity will finally produce deep strategic reciprocity, when the Gulf has long since shown that it will prioritize whoever best serves its current interests.

So while you are trying to make a point , it is easy to break its "legs" and turn it around against your understanding of pretty much all of it. The Gulf will not “respect” Pakistan because Pakistan once sent pilots, troops, guards, or laborers. It will respect Pakistan when Pakistan has institutional stability, economic relevance, skilled human capital, and something beyond manpower to offer. Until then, outrage over how the Gulf views Pakistan is a bit naive, because states do not reward sentiment but rather strength, utility, and leverage... which is what those 200+ nuclear weapons are and ONLY are.

 

[Mighty_Dragon_Strike]

Hi,

What has pride to do with what I wrote---?

I wrote about my personal conversations---I wrote about what I assessed---.

My position is the same a it was at the start of Yemen war---.

of course, personal opinions are personal (far from truth!)

my opinions could be wrong as well (bec. after all they are only opinion, strangely, here, only Im open to such an admission unlike my antagonist as if anybody disagrees they dont belong in the society)

this becomes problematic, when:

1. personal opinion favor one side of the history
2. are grounded in such a way, which dont allow healthy and critical debate
(and are written in way to deflect respon. on the different factions of the society!)
3. essentially, such opinions sound like, one and only version of truth!


this is not an indication of healthy society, rather, such behavior results from deep rooted hatred for opposing views. There is no place for hatred in a modern developed society.

 

[lightning f57]

To be honest I don't know how far this extended - we have tugs with AIS on in port of Oman tugging something large...

We don't know what role PLA Navy is playing. Land route is another option that is why Gawadar is strategic corridor for CPEC 2.0.

If one thing positive can come out of this, I hope its seriousness and crystal clarity from Pak government and Chinese government to get this CPEC corridor hustling and bustling with economic activity. Pak sits in a great place to help with transportation of resources and goods through ME and central Asia.

 

[Psyko70]

There is no proof what happened in rawalpindi as claimed on social media. I think its character assasination.

 

[Watandar]

If one thing positive can come out of this, I hope its seriousness and crystal clarity from Pak government and Chinese government to get this CPEC corridor hustling and bustling with economic activity. Pak sits in a great place to help with transportation of resources and goods through ME and central Asia.

Off topic but transportation from where to where ? Problem with cpec is a shoot first ask questions later approach. We were first told CPEC will be used to transport goods from western China, the Xinkiang region particularly to global markets. But goods made in Xinkiang have been under western sanctions and the Karakoram highway is too fragile, hence that traffic never materialized.

The backup Chinese idea was mineral rich Afghanistan and to use CPEC for that to export, but that seems too difficult for both Taliban and GHQ to understand.

An interesting discussion that probably deserves it own thread, why CPEC has been a failure so far.

 

[hasssanali8998]

pov u try to explain to pakistanis that security of pakistan is above IRAN and KSA .

 

[mythbuster]

So the obvious question is, why are the Gulfies and Saudi Arabia so weak? Aside from offering money to all and sundry (including Talibs and Indians), what actual use are they? If a nation pumps funds into the coffers of our enemies and us at the same time, why should preferential treatment be expected for said nation?

Afghanistan: How do the Taliban make money?

The Taliban maintain a sophisticated financial network and taxation system to generate income.

www.bbc.co.uk

If one considers this rationally, then the natural course of all things becomes self evident.

Hulagu cursed the defeated Vizier of Baghdad for not spending on his military after he overran the Abbasids.

The Ottomans did not hesitate to annex the Hejaz for themselves in the 15th century.

I maintain that Arabs are compromised as a nation due to their self induced state of abject military despondency, as they have been for a century now.

Pakistan is expected to sustain and offer life support for a failed nation? A failed nation that funds our enemies as much as it does us?

There are better alternatives.

It's like cursing chihuahua for not becoming a bulldog since he's well fed and pampered.

 

[Tom_Cruise]

Not a single Saudi soldier or pilot will ever set foot in Pakistan to defend it. They would never give their life for Pakistan, a country and people they consider vastly inferior to them. This pact is a one-way agreement because they know Pakistanis are willing to die for the 'holy land'. We are expendable.

 

[Gripen9]

I do not appreciate this very laisse fare attitude of Saudi’s towards Pakistan

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[hasssanali8998]

The good news is that Iranian missiles are not very accurate so at must they will fall on some random buildings or houses.

their SRBM's are VERY accurate .
dont u remember that qatar strike in june
or the various strike son gcc bses in this war