Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

Aryan_B said:
That's simply not correct. The straits give Iran more leverage than ever before and therefore makes more likely a deal may happen
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I'm not following your logic. Now that our differences are wider, a deal is more likely? How so?

Aryan_B said:
No I did not state that I stated the Iranian delegation stated that
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And I told you that the Iranian delegation always says that after negotiations. They said exactly the same thing after each round of negotiations with Witkoff in Oman.
 
r3alist said:
Then by your thinking the only theoretical course is to let hostilities play out until someone raises the White flag unequivocally.
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Exactly. Hostilities between the US and Iran will never end until one side is either changed politically or accepts defeat.
Maybe back in 1980s or 1990s, there was a way of reconciliation between the US and Iran. But now that Israel publicly dictates the US what to do, and Israel has never been this aggressive in decades, there's no way.
There is no win-win situation anymore. No 50-50 concessions. No restoration of ties. One side has to defeat the other.

r3alist said:
Which implies you do not give the costs a second thought
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That's irrelevant because the costs will be imposed on us anyway. The US is not going to have mercy on us because they met us in Islamabad yesterday. The US wants everything they want to get, and even when they get it, they will start plotting their next move. Their whole reason for insisting on handing over the uranium stockpile is because they want to plot their next moves immediately after it has been secured.

r3alist said:
And you have to be open to the possibility of being on maximalist losing side, potentially in the way Japan currently is
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Japan turned out to be one of the world's poles of economic and scientific power. Not a good example, but yes, you either win or you lose. If you win, the rewards are tremendous. If you lose, the consequences are tremendous too.
 
Flotilla said:
Untrue.
Yolanda Díaz and Ione Belarra, both of them inside of Spanish Government always, before being even elected, supported Palestine cause.
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Maybe you're right, I was talking about PSOE.

The people you talk are from far left parties.

Both are from government.

But important decisions are from PSOE, the party with large amount of votes, social democrats, left, non far left.

I don't know how much Podemos/Sumar leaders believe in what they say, but certainly more than PSOE.

Anyway, it's their voters, including PSOE who really care about Iran war, Gaza war.

So they don't need to take real actions, just to say strong words in public. To keep happy their voters.

American war airplanes kept flying here at the same their antiwar rants.
 
Flotilla said:
.
I agree.
If the goal it is defending Saudí Arabia and not to encircle Irán, to me there is no problem.

The Iranian goal it is to take out americans of the whole region. While this is not possible (EAU and Kuwait) completely, this is deffinitively a step up to take out them.

Mangekyo, you're witnessing the demise of US hegemony. And that happened thanks exclusively to Irán. They have been wiped out. And I am pretty sure that having pakistanis at the other side of the Persian Gulf will help to enhance a good neighboring and friendly relations.

Emiratis should be afraid, not persians.
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But to defend Saudi Arabia from what? Iran is hitting Saudi because they are allowing the Americans to use Saudi airspace and bases against us. Saudi is the clear aggressor against Iran.

I understand it’s a sensitive topic. But if Pakistan chooses to defend Saudi against Iran, it means they are undermining Iran’s respons and further emboldening the Saudis and even the Americans and Israelis. By doing so, Pakistan is siding with the aggressors. This is all I’m saying.

Could it be that this is a move from Pakistan to show they can provide security to Saudi and force Saudis to kick out the Americans? Maybe, but it’s unlikely.

What was shocking to me is that no one but one member was against this move, some even went as far as blaming us for attacking «our neighbors» completely ignoring why we are attacking them in the first place.
 
" Yedioth Ahronoth": The United States continues airlifting weapons to Israel


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The whole 2-week "ceasefire" and negotiations were gimmick designed to buy time and replenish "Israel's" weapon stocks.
 
Hassan Al-Somal said:
" Yedioth Ahronoth": The United States continues airlifting weapons to Israel


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The whole 2-week "ceasefire" and negotiations were gimmick designed to buy time and replenish "Israel's" weapon stocks.
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They dont need a ceasefire to do that.
 
mangekyo said:
I understand it’s a sensitive topic. But if Pakistan chooses to defend Saudi against Iran, it means they are undermining Iran’s respons and further emboldening the Saudis and even the Americans and Israelis. By doing so, Pakistan is siding with the aggressors. This is all I’m saying.
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I understand your concern. Time will tell. But I really apreciate Saudis did not got emboldened directly in the fight, and hosting pakistanese troops maybe it is a indication of a major shift on Security strategy in the kingdom.

Irán never had a territorial dispute with Saudi Arabia and thanks to China has a direct link with the king. Friendly messages even in the peak of the war it is another suggestion that this move it is to change the security strategy and not to warn or pressure Irán. But time will tell. I´ve mistaken also many times.
 
I think that US and Iran could come to a deal but now and in the past the influence of Iran on US has been impossible to ignore.

I think we now in a different world. Most of the world and American people themselves will suffer economically as a consequence of Israel/American starting a war by killing Iran's SL and children at school.

So we have pressure from Israel on Trump to continue war vs American allies in west and east and his own voter base to stop it.

I think Trump is a coward and bully and will cave in eventually
 
mangekyo said:
What was shocking to me is that no one but one member was against this move, some even went as far as blaming us for attacking «our neighbors» completely ignoring why we are attacking them in the first place.
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Many of us including me are not entirely happy with this deal but we are where we are (no vote was taken for public if want this) unfortunately we don't have the luxury Iran has in resources and our economy is not in a great place. Notwithstanding that its sold to us in Pakistan that it would never be prejudicial to Iran,

Something that i never quite understood is that Iran could have made overtures to Pakistan which it has much in common with instead Iran chose to be friendly with Muslim hating India ( look at Indian occupied Kashmir) who is a close ally of Israel and also look to unreliable Russians.

Not Russians nor Indians were censured for helping Iran nuclear program. We helped and Iran told the world we helped resulting in Pakistan being called rogue proliferator of nukes

Many on here are talking about merits of Iran Pakistan China alliance since start of this current war those that know me and my posts on old pdf I pushed a China Iran and Pakistan closer relations some 12 years ago in 2014. Yo cant clap with one hand and Iran is as much to blame for Pakistan been closer to Saudi. In 1998 we did nuclear test and were sanctioned and Pakistan would have gone bankrupt (we did go internally bankrupt my sterling bank accounts in Pakistan were converted to rupee accounts) had Saudi not supported Pakistan financially. I still dislike the GCC monarchies and hate them for their policy towards America and Israel but sometimes life is not black and white

Back to China Pakistan Iran alliance will come into being no matter what short term leaders we have because our location and interests converge
 
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r3alist said:
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Please don't mind my idiot minister Vivian Balakrishnan.

He is just another US mouthpiece who is afraid even if our neighbour Indonesia makes a little bit of noise. He is quick to condemn Russia's aggression against Ukraine but goes silent when Iran is attacked by US.

Singapore'a government ain't no angel.
 
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