PAF SAM based Air Defense System - News, Discussion & Updates

One thing that is interesting Is the lack of MR SAM orders, we have heard of new Shorads and new long range systems (HQ-16FE + more HQ-9Bs) but no new MR SAMs, hopefully that means that the LOMADS program as going well and that PAF is holding off on new foreign MRSAMs because of it (Massive hopium)
I heard that work on LOMAD air defense system has been accelerated and now rapid progress is being made on this system At the moment the system is in testing phase and some tests have already been carried out successfully.
 
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FD-2000 is SARH, chunky and low energy. The TVC im not sure about, but its not particularly relevant on these long range missiles i believe because you have a limited motor burn time, so the TVC is only really relevant at launch because it will improve reaction times which i guess is valid against time critical high speed targets

What means SARH and why it was bought if it’s so down rated.
 
@Ak01 @Quwa

would the FK-3000 be a good CAUS solution? It has 96 micro missiles and a 30mm gun with programmable ammo

The missiles have a 40mm diameter and are much smaller then even Manpad missiles with range 12KMs, so we are looking at a missile cost of roughly $50k


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Why not making a Pakistani solution.
 
TBF "Export grade" Is a bit misleading, these aren't Soviet stripped down "monkey models" For example can you name one thing that's worse in Pakistani J-10CEs (except the missiles) compared to PLAAF J-10Cs?
we dont know, because we dont know what is even onboard!

the reality is, China NEVER exports the systems it uses domestically, unless it has a better option.

PL-15's after the next gen VLRAAMs
PN got the oldest flights of 054'A's possible, with a new variant now released
VT4's, SAM's, etc etc

aircraft is a bit of a weird one, but sensors and systems can be downgraded without changes to the airframe.

But its true, China does strip down systems for export, nobody can deny that
 
Useless viewpoint. If you wanna talk about export grade look at our f16s!
Have a look at how we beg each time for some upgrades and are declined!
whats export grade about our F-16's?

Theyre the same kit as the USAF ones?

Also, upgrades were not declined, they're there, the condition is you have to pay for them and not FMF, but also, you need to accept the EUC's. During Sohail Aman's tender F-16V's were still available, and im sure its the same now, whether its acceptable to us is a different matter.
 
What means SARH and why it was bought if it’s so down rated.
was my mistake, i mixed it up between the HQ-16 and HQ-9.

But that aside, SARH basically in this case means the missile has a passive reciever in the nose, picking up radar reflections when a target is illuminated by a 3rd party, so a guidance radar.

Bad in the sense that a lock has to be maintained for the missile to track, if a lock is broken, the missile goes stupid. Was good once upon a time in the era of high altitude aircraft, but nowadays when we're talking stealthy and low, its got serious limitations. You can also run into guidance limitations, for example the LY-80N being able to only guide 8 missiles at a time, 2 per channel, so you run into serious danger when facing swarm attacks for example, even worse now with the advent of LM's.
 
was my mistake, i mixed it up between the HQ-16 and HQ-9.

But that aside, SARH basically in this case means the missile has a passive reciever in the nose, picking up radar reflections when a target is illuminated by a 3rd party, so a guidance radar.

Bad in the sense that a lock has to be maintained for the missile to track, if a lock is broken, the missile goes stupid. Was good once upon a time in the era of high altitude aircraft, but nowadays when we're talking stealthy and low, its got serious limitations. You can also run into guidance limitations, for example the LY-80N being able to only guide 8 missiles at a time, 2 per channel, so you run into serious danger when facing swarm attacks for example, even worse now with the advent of LM's.
so basically we are screwed?
 
There is a lot of things the Turks can't sell to Pakistan, they don't have any fighters on offer, @Oscar mentioned that SIPER was being looked at but it was too exorbitantly priced for what it offered, I think it's one of the Reasons that even Azerbaijan has gotten HQ-9Bs.

I don't think Pakistan has ever gotten something from the Turks that one can say was better then what the Chinese were offering.

True - but now Pakistan has the best of both worlds, and can either mix or match from both or use components from both to build its own solutions that meet its requirements.
 
we dont know, because we dont know what is even onboard!

the reality is, China NEVER exports the systems it uses domestically, unless it has a better option.

PL-15's after the next gen VLRAAMs
PN got the oldest flights of 054'A's possible, with a new variant now released
VT4's, SAM's, etc etc

aircraft is a bit of a weird one, but sensors and systems can be downgraded without changes to the airframe.

But its true, China does strip down systems for export, nobody can deny that

Also, the question is does Türkiye strip down the export variants to Pakistan, or are they the same as what the Turkish Armed forces use.
 
so basically we are screwed?
no, but i do think some of these purchases are quite shortsighted.

The 054a's were very much a political purchase IMO. They were HEAVILY subsidised by the Chinese, which is why they were bought. I dont think the PN would have if not for this.

the HQ-16's were the only available option at the time in mass production. I made this argument before but, seeing the way things are playing out in the ME atm, i would say maybe having a mediocre, but widely adopted missile may actually be better than a high end solution in limited numbers.

The PLA has huge stocks, now not to say they would for sure provide access to them during war, but under the hopes they do, it would create a pretty sustained stockpile for the Pak forces to pull upon when our inventories are depleted.

OTOH, the HQ-16 and HQ-9 are probably not very well suited to the kind of threats we have.

The HQ-16A was designed from the 9M38 BUK missile
1778930264485.png
1778930297589.png

Until the HQ-16C, you dont see any airframe modifications.

What we likely see here is HQ-16A probably retains the motor tech/design of the 9M38 with Chinese electronics and maybe new guidance laws, who knows. But the ranges of the HQ-16A and 9M38 are identical. I would deduce that the two missiles have similar performance, but due to Chinese electronics advancements, would probably fare better in certain combat environments. OTOH, none of this could be true and it could literally just be a licensed 9m38 mated to Chinese radars and systems. Point is, the performance is likely similar.

With HQ-16B, you will have obviously seen new motor tech. The HQ-16B basically doubles the range, i would expect new SRM tech, but id expect that the electronics/guidance would have probably remained the same, but with new flight control/guidance laws as a result of the more powerful motor.

With HQ-16C, theres not much details but we see new midbody strakes etc, because its deployed on PLAN ships, my assumption is we see a general refresh, with particular attention being paid to its onboard electronics, ensuring they're capable and up to scrach in case of any conflict with the USN, who are arguably bringing some of the worlds top, if not, the best EW systems to the fight, so the key here was to ensure these missiles would still be able to perform in a complex environment like that.

Then HQ-16FE is just new everything, i dont need to explain that one.

So back to 9M38/HQ-16A, it has a max target interception speed of Mach 4, so in theory, targets like BrahMos etc should be within its umbrella, but the conditions probably have to be on the more ideal side. But the biggest downfall is the lack of ability to deal with large swarm attacks- this is true for the Naval version, maybe not necessarily for the land version, because the limitation on the naval version is from the Illuminators which are a copy of the old soviet MR-90 "front dome". Its why we see the newest flights of 054A replace them with new AESA ones.
1778930991768.png
1778931065807.png
 
Also, the question is does Türkiye strip down the export variants to Pakistan, or are they the same as what the Turkish Armed forces use.
IMO, the Turks arent really in a position to do so. They NEED exports to survive, their industry relies on them, they cant meet the scale alone so they have to be more accomodating, whereas China will be fine, if we buy, or not
 
whats export grade about our F-16's?

Theyre the same kit as the USAF ones?

Also, upgrades were not declined, they're there, the condition is you have to pay for them and not FMF, but also, you need to accept the EUC's. During Sohail Aman's tender F-16V's were still available, and im sure its the same now, whether its acceptable to us is a different matter.
We got soyabeen for f16s bro!
 
IMO, the Turks arent really in a position to do so. They NEED exports to survive, their industry relies on them, they cant meet the scale alone so they have to be more accomodating, whereas China will be fine, if we buy, or not

Yep - and this is why Pakistan wants to further develop Turkieyes industry as military alternative ( cost prohibitive issues pending of course ).

Both Pakistan and Türkiye will operate the same variants which means, even war time replacements would be possible for system from Türkiye but not at all possible from China as they would need to be manufactured or converted over. Case in point is the J10CE is a different beast from the PLAAF variants, so war time attrition replacements for the J10CE from China are basically impossible.
 

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