PTI news, updates and discussions part ll

People need to look at it from both sides, they all made mistakes, army/generals helped IK to power and then when IK didnt listen to them they stopped protecting him, this was the downfall of the relationship and has reached a no point of return. Pti also did fake propaganda against the army.

Thread 'Imran Khan: The Path to Revolution"PakAl PDF'
Bro, that is an understatement.

The establishment has been treating the constitution like a tissue paper, time and again. Overthrowing of governments, pillaging the Executive and Judiciary branch, rigging the elections, treating politicians like pawns, etc etc.

Only this time the public came out on streets and sang the national anthem rather than distributing sweets.

Now, most Pakistanis have had a watershed moment and opened their eyes to the root cause.

The current system will still last in my opinion, and we may never see civilian supremacy in our life time. However, unfortunately Pakistanis will continue to feel disenfranchised.
 
Bro, that is an understatement.

The establishment has been treating the constitution like a tissue paper, time and again. Overthrowing of governments, pillaging the Executive and Judiciary branch, rigging the elections, treating politicians like pawns, etc etc.

Only this time the public came out on streets and sang the national anthem rather than distributing sweets.

Now, most Pakistanis have had a watershed moment and opened their eyes to the root cause.

The current system will still last in my opinion, and we may never see civilian supremacy in our life time. However, unfortunately Pakistanis will continue to feel disenfranchised.
What about the civilians and the civilian elected politicians, they are worse, noone forces them to do bribery, corruption, become mafias but here we are. If they had the power they would sell the tanks and planes in order to fill their pockets.
 
What about the civilians and the civilian elected politicians, they are worse, noone forces them to do bribery, corruption, become mafias but here we are. If they had the power they would sell the tanks and planes in order to fill their pockets.
There is a mechanism to remove corrupt politicians. That is if the courts are allowed to operate.

Not absolving the politicians of their wrongdoings but they ain’t the root cause.

And not to say corruption doesn’t happen under a hybrid regime.
 
posting here. It is another IK's mistake or blunder (on Bajwa's suggestion) to appoint the current air chief as there were more worthy candidates.
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IK was known to defer to Bajwa from a “benefactor” perspective on appointments.
Which goes back to the original issue with the overall system and that working with the devil means you compromise for him but that means you at least deliver to consolidate your position before challenging the devil.

When you yourself are unable to competently take advantage of the opportunity provided for change then you cause more damage than good.

Neem hakeem and naam mullah in one package. Unfortunately - this will be dismissed under the typical “Bughuz e Imran” defense because other than that what othet actual logical defense is there?
Whataboutism to the Sharifs or Zardaris or FM or every general since hanniba?
 
Imran Khan will steamroll any free and fair election. He did it in the last one and he'll certainly do it in the next one because PMLN + PPP + Fauj + Judiciary combined have failed to deliver so the rebound factor applies also.

I think in 2029 they will not even allow PTI to contest as independents. They will find some loophole for it, or pass a new law or just go after any potential PTI candidate and their family.
And that is perfectly fine if that actually does happen except does that actually change anything in Pakistan?
 
IK was known to defer to Bajwa from a “benefactor” perspective on appointments.
Which goes back to the original issue with the overall system and that working with the devil means you compromise for him but that means you at least deliver to consolidate your position before challenging the devil.

When you yourself are unable to competently take advantage of the opportunity provided for change then you cause more damage than good.

Neem hakeem and naam mullah in one package. Unfortunately - this will be dismissed under the typical “Bughuz e Imran” defense because other than that what othet actual logical defense is there?
Whataboutism to the Sharifs or Zardaris or FM or every general since hanniba?

This IMO is the only valid criticism, and the the cause of his ultimate downfall.

Khan bit off more than he could chew and thought he had more sway in decision making as compared to GHQ than he thought. He actually thought he was the boss, Icarus to the sun.

All the other arguments or machinations were downstream.

Should have stuck with keeping in his lane and letting Bajwa be in his...magr Bajwa ko bhi phir badshahi ka shauq tha. Two egos can't be in the same room for too long.

That's why we need institutions, not people...and we are back to square one.
 
This IMO is the only valid criticism, and the the cause of his ultimate downfall.

Khan bit off more than he could chew and thought he had more sway in decision making as compared to GHQ than he thought. He actually thought he was the boss, Icarus to the sun.

All the other arguments or machinations were downstream.

Should have stuck with keeping in his lane and letting Bajwa be in his...magr Bajwa ko bhi phir badshahi ka shauq tha. Two egos can't be in the same room for too long.

That's why we need institutions, not people...and we are back to square one.
But what would "staying in your own lane" have accomplished ? Shaukat Aziz and Zafarullah Jamali were people who stayed in their own lane and then left without a single accomplishment. Anyone who asserts the true constitutional and political power of the office, whether forcefully or meekly like ZAB or Junejo or Bhutto or Gillani or Sharif or Imran Khan is immediately punished by the insecure autocracy that rules the country.

The autocracy merely wants puppets so it can pretend to be a "democracy" to the rest of the world and avoid sanctions and bad press. The present hybrid farce suits it just fine, however all this is bad for Pakistan as a country. Someone, or a succession of people, has to challenge the autocracy and eventually overcome it.
 
This IMO is the only valid criticism, and the the cause of his ultimate downfall.

Khan bit off more than he could chew and thought he had more sway in decision making as compared to GHQ than he thought. He actually thought he was the boss, Icarus to the sun.

All the other arguments or machinations were downstream.

Should have stuck with keeping in his lane and letting Bajwa be in his...magr Bajwa ko bhi phir badshahi ka shauq tha. Two egos can't be in the same room for too long.

That's why we need institutions, not people...and we are back to square one.
I don’t think that was the only case. IK not only bit of more than he could chew he was biting off the wrong pieces.

For all his public religious invocations and I have “met” him at individuals( Rafiq Akhtar is an example… with his own critiques but looking at the Pakistani pool) i consider to be learned and somewhat balanced from a religious guide perspective - he clearly took no lessons from the prophet’s life.

If we take Hudaybiya as a distant analogy to the “deal with the devil” situation then clearly the years of peace during that time was focused on strengthening Medina and the Islamic state as an institution and not attacking the Quraysh. Instead house cleaning and institutionalizing the faith was key to why Islam walked into Makkah undeterred.

Meanwhile IK spent most of his time immediately attacking PMLN or PPPP whenever the slightest question arose on PTI own incompetent decisions and kept arbitrarily overruling attempts by good people within PTI to create an institution within it.

You could blame the Pakistani within it but his “buck stops here” overreach began in Cricket - somewhat was tempered due to Jemimah with SKMH - and then rose again with PTI with the peerni finally letting it loose completely.

To your point - you need institutions that recognize what type of leadership is needed at what stage. Neither the Pakistan Army is capable of understanding this due to their inherited and generally sluggish military mindset , and overall Pakistani society is unable to understand this wonderful concept by Frank Herbert:

“Power attracts pathological personalities. It is not that power corrupts but that it is magnetic to the corruptible”

Restating probably known common facts:

Bhutto didn’t need “encouragement” to start the PPP because he had a massive ego, deep pockets from his wadera landholdings, and a precise understanding of the political vacuum. He gathered socialists, leftists, and marginalized groups at a friend’s house in Lahore to officially form the party. Bhutto weaponized the mass anger he knew was brewing against Ayub, painted himself from an elitist regime insider into a populist savior. Any disagreement there?

Imran Khan’s path started with his frustration at what Zardari and Co were doing(reportedly based on massive extortion attempts for SKMH) but we also know Hamid Gul(another colorful figure in Pakistan’s messes) was the one who took him along for his soft coup attempt against Benazir until IK backs out and forms PTI on his own because of? Ego clash?

They are both however still elitist in their origins - so clearly a true “people’s leader” hasn’t really emerged here because of institutional failures.

Even Jinnah had an elitist background - but it took some 4 years for Iqbal to really convince him from his disillusionment and even more for him to embrace the populism as the vehicle instead of institutional methods to get Pakistan.

But if we then apply that metric from Herbert to the three of them - specifically because PTI supporters like to compare IK to Jinnah -

Bhutto is the classic example of someone already wired for absolute control who successfully magnetized the system to give it to him.

However, IKs own ego was his corruption. His insistence that he is the sole savior is a hallmark of the corruptible personality. While he may not have sought power for traditional financial fraud, he did argue constantly on his moral absolute power and use religion as the vehicle to deliver it.

The “anti-corruption” crusader actively allied with the military establishment (the architects of the very system he opposed) and welcomed dozens of notoriously corrupt “electables” into his party and once in power, he utilized state institutions to suppress the opposition.

Imran Khan wasn’t corrupted by the office but by his overriding belief in his own righteousness allowed him to justify engaging in the exact transactional, systemic corruption he swore to destroy.

Jinnah abhorred populism. His authority was not rooted in emotional manipulation or presenting himself as a messiah, but his lawyer background applied to constitutional logic, exhaustive legal prep and maneuvering(some say to his detriment that he kept fighting the case for Indian muslims but never stopped being a lawyer).
He did not seek power to enforce a personal moral vision onto the masses and was still in “court”. Because his end goal was institutional rather than personal.

That is the difference in why he succeeded while Imran Khan was BOUND to fail and his followers are in an illusionary pipe dream.
 
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0/10 for pathetic acting lol
 
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posting here. It is another IK's mistake or blunder (on Bajwa's suggestion) to appoint the current air chief as there were more worthy candidates.
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Not taking anyone's side here, but if I remember correctly the current CAS was the senior most at the time of his elevation
 
How is Drop Site news any more reliable than The Intercept? There is nothing new in the link you have posted. (For example, The Intercept provided startup funding for Drop Site News. How about this story: https://pakobserver.net/drop-site-news-weaponizing-false-propaganda/ )

The original document can only be released by the government, and even IK chose not to do that when he had the authority to do so.

It is time to accept that IK lied about this matter 100% and give it a rest.


keep denying the facts... we love it

but it now clear to the entire planet... you guys are cheats!
 
Look at this issue this way"

Whether IK lied, or told the truth, he did it to remain in power. And he failed. What is more, the country has moved on without IK just the same as before, no better and no worse.

Talk about a storm in a teacup. And even that was years ago.


yes moved on to more poverty, bad governance, zero rule of law and more debt from IMF


congratulations !

donkey naan does wonders for the brain doesnt it?
 
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And that is perfectly fine if that actually does happen except does that actually change anything in Pakistan?

Sir sach batau tou in the past few weeks I'm losing the will to care. God bless our Army, god bless them for lying down under the Indian tanks and blowing themselves up and fighting alongside angels in 65 and God bless them for being the number 1 intelligence agency and army in the world and shooting down 15 jets.

God bless them for winning all the wars and always saving Pakistan from every nazuq morr that comes its way (every 2 weeks).

Imran Khan sahi tha, thora bewaqoof tha. Either he was complicit or he did not understand who the people around him were really after. Chalo koi nahi.
 

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