TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[Ali_Baba]

I think there’s a saying among the Germans and the French about themselves: If the “ignorant” Turks can pull this off then surely we can too. The problem with this mindset is that those so-called “ignorant” Turks would treat it like a “ man-on-the-moon” project and fully commit to it. I doubt we’d see that same level of dedication from either the French the Germans.

Both Germany and France have the technological, infrastructure, organizational capabilities to develop a 5th Gen and 6th Gen fighter on their own on a turn key basis if they make the political decision to do so, and have the money and political stability for that project. The issue, is the politics of priorities of government spending and overall financial resources.

Lets not kid ourselves here.

 

[Michael]

Aside from the engine, what systems or organizational challenges do you think exist? What are the top three systems expected to challenge our industry? What might the organizational problems be?

The answer to this question depends on your standards.

What I can tell you is that even using the most stringent standards—from raw materials in nature, all processing steps, all necessary machinery and equipment, and intermediate materials—to the final product, China's fighter jets currently don't reach 100% accuracy; it's probably around 95%. As for what problems might arise in between, that's top secret.

This is a standard absolutely free from external influence and control. You can use this standard to examine KAAN itself and see what its percentage is.

Many people on this forum often say, "We don't need to reinvent the wheel." What I want to say is that you don't have to reinvent the wheel, but you do need to learn how to make your own wheels completely. Buying a product when you can make it yourself is a completely different level of business than buying one when you don't know how to make it yourself.

 

[hyperman]

I'm hoping Starmer causes Japan to exit GCAP, as the Japanese are freaking out about delays to the program with the rise of Chinese 5th and 6th gen capacity.

If the Japanese go it alone for engine and the plane itself, this is beneficial for Turkey. As it creates another engine manufacturer independent of GE/PW/RR. And there could be collaboration on subsystems with Japan and KAAN.

 

[hodor]

I'm hoping Starmer causes Japan to exit GCAP, as the Japanese are freaking out about delays to the program with the rise of Chinese 5th and 6th gen capacity.

If the Japanese go it alone for engine and the plane itself, this is beneficial for Turkey. As it creates another engine manufacturer independent of GE/PW/RR. And there could be collaboration on subsystems with Japan and KAAN.

Japanese can't act independently of the U.S. either; they wouldn't supply engines to a country that the U.S. disapproves of. However, if we're talking about the long term, I think we'll have perfected the TF35000 engine within the next 20 years.

 

[hyperman]

Japanese can't act independently of the U.S. either; they wouldn't supply engines to a country that the U.S. disapproves of. However, if we're talking about the long term, I think we'll have perfected the TF35000 engine within the next 20 years.

South Korea supplied the engine that was embargoed by Germany. Regardless, what I mean is that more options that are available, the easier it is to diversify and also opportunities for selling or buying sub systems.

 

[BonPlan]

Both Germany and France have the technological, infrastructure, organizational capabilities to develop a 5th Gen and 6th Gen fighter on their own

Not really.
Germany lacks a key technology : engine. MTU has only knowledge on cold part of a jet engine, not in the hot core. It is key.
And we may have some doubt about their ability to study a complete fighter on their own : what is the last military jet they study and built alone ? no one.
On eurofighter Germany built the center of frame and the vertical fin. A little bit short isn't it? Even their training jet, MAKO, was only a paper project.

 

[BonPlan]

Spain and Germany should join KAAN project

You are pulling our legs Bro.

And even in this case, KAAN rely on US engines. That means a strong link (chain) to use it, to export it !
Because the turkish 10 tons jet engine is not for tomorrow.

 

[MMM-E]

You are pulling our legs Bro.

And even in this case, KAAN rely on US engines. That means a strong link (chain) to use it, to export it !
Because the turkish 10 tons jet engine is not for tomorrow.

FCAS or something else is also not for tomorrow

Even if Germany start a new Fighter Jet project today, it would struggle to complete its Engine for a minimum of 20 years


On the other hand, Turkiye has been carrying out development activities on the engine since 2018 and aims to complete it by 2032-2035 period


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btw maybe , We can export KAAN to Spain with American Engine. as like , We did it with HURJET

Even with American Engine KAAN will be far better than all 4,5th gen Fighters RAFALE , Eurofighter , F-15EX , J-10C , SU-35 ....... also KF-21 , SU-57 and J-35

 

[Deino]

...

Even with American Engine KAAN will be far better than all 4,5th gen Fighters RAFALE , Eurofighter , F-15EX , J-10C , SU-35 ....... also KF-21 , SU-57 and J-35

And this again is Your typical stupid hubris: A heavier fighter with much larger dimensions and still the same old "American Engine" CANNOT be better than ... esp. not the F-15EX, Su-35!

Forget it.

 

[MMM-E]

And this again is Your typical stupid hubris: A heavier fighter with much larger dimensions and still the same old "American Engine" CANNOT be better than ... esp. not the F-15EX, Su-35!

Forget it.

Yes again , Your typical stupid hubris .. You are underestimating Turkish military projects

in BVR combat KAAN easly can hit F-15EX or SU-35 , even their pilots couldn't see KAAN on radar before they get hit on the head with BVR missiles

dog fight is over ...
Modern warfare will be network-based, using BVR Missiles to hit enemy Fighter Jets from very long distances

Here are the qualities that give KAAN an advantage.
Stealth Platform
Sensor fusion
network centric warfare

Also we can add KIZILELMA or ANKA-4 unmanned stealth Fighter Jet for MUM-T concept to help the KAAN to turn an F-15EX or SU-35 into a burnt bird in BVR combat

 

[Deino]

... all not yet proven! but yes, MMM-E knows it all better!

 

[hasssanali8998]

KAAN easly can

*will

acting like u have them in service

 

[MMM-E]

... all not yet proven! but yes, MMM-E knows it all better!

Proven what ?
KAAN is not paper project

KAAN is already here with steath design and internal weapon bays for much lower RCS than the F-15EX , SU-35 and all 4,5th gen Fighter Jets

good luck to F-15EX or SU-35 with their huge RCS of 5m2 in BVR combat


Even KIZILEMA has RCS of 0,3 m2
RCS ratio: 5 m² / 0.3 m² = 16.7 times difference.

Lower RCS gives a meaningful first-look/first-shot edge

KAAN has ever better stealth design than SU-57 and KF-21

 

[Deino]

I know you by now, and I know that "truth" is a pretty flexible concept for you; after all, the moment you can twist someone's argument or even just deliberately misinterpret it, you’re right back in your element.

So, let me spell this out for you—and to be quoted, too:

- NO, Kaan certainly isn't a "paper project"—I never claimed that... but it isn't a combat-proven system yet, either; it doesn't have a radar installed whose development is complete and whose performance parameters have been verified.

- None of the RCS figures are confirmed, none of its other performances and let's be clear: Kaan is a prototype with only TWO —that's "2," for the idiots out there— flights under its belt as a demonstrator... the actual prototype hasn't even flown yet, yet you're already exaggerating as if it were confirmed to be operationally superior to XYZ.


I know we’ll have this discussion many times over the coming years, and every time, you’ll ignore arguments, spread PR propaganda, and bash anyone who criticizes it. But as long as the engine isn't finished (and it’s nowhere near ready) and the avionics package isn't considered production-ready, the whole thing is anything but finished!

And even you can't deny that!

 

[MMM-E]

Chinese can fool only themselves and anti-Turkiye users


When it comes to the Chinese J-35, Its stealthy; when it comes to the KAAN, it's not proven ..... wtf is your Jet proven in a conflict ?

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A Prototype is sufficient to determine whether a platform has stealth capabilities.


And Turkiye has enough technology to equippe even KIZILELMA with MURAD AESA Radar , TOYGUN EOTS , KARAT IRST and FEWS-U EW Suite

None of the Systems were just on paper, and they even conducted flights by integrating them into KIZILELMA

There will be no problems with KAAN's avionics and electronic systems.

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You have no shame, We haven't forgotten that they called KAAN a fake mock-up which can not fly , 6 years ago

And now, here too, they are spreading anti-Turkiye propaganda for some idiots