The Egyptian-Turkish alliance.. Cairo and Ankara are moving towards a new Middle East through the “KAAN” stealth aircraft project

[MMM-E]

I suggest you do some reading about the KSA-Turkiye defense deals and strategic deals that were signed lately. As well as the Saudi Arabian and Arab founding within Turkiye on numerous fronts, not only defense.

Almost nothing

Only buying 60 AKINCI UCAVs
and Turkiye gives Helicopter technology to Saudi Arabia

Like European countries, Islamic countries should also carry out joint projects.

Europeans are so smart
Eurofighter Fighter Jet ( The UK , Italy , Germany , Spain )
SAMP-T Air Defense System ( France-Italy )
METEOR BVR Missile ( European consortium)
and many more

 

[_Arabia_]

Almost nothing

Only buying 60 AKINCI UCAVs
and Turkiye gives Helicopter technology to Saudi Arabia

Like European countries, Islamic countries should also carry out joint projects.

Europeans are so smart
Eurofighter Fighter Jet ( The UK , Italy , Germany , Spain )
SAMP-T Air Defense System ( France-Italy )
METEOR BVR Missile ( European consortium)
and many more

I think that there is much more than that (you can Google) and likely this cooperation will increase in the future.

However I agree, cooperation should be greater and more mutually beneficial for everyone involved.

However when you live in a neighborhood in perpetual conflict and instability it becomes harder.

Europe has had peace (largely) since 1945 and in particular after 1989/1991. This region needs the same for a longer period and it could also develop much quicker and more jointly. Nowadays there are is a too big difference between rich and poorer countries. This hampers a collective growth as the countries are in a very different development arch. Making it difficult to grow jointly.

 

[MMM-E]

Which is also why Turkiye also wants F-35, THAAD, Patriots etc.

The difference is that Turkey is also developing its own projects.

KAAN instead of the F-35
SIPER-2 instead of PATRIOT
SIPER-3/4 instead of THAAD

And Turkiye is very close to that, just 5-7 years away.

Saudi Arabia may acquire American weapons as an urgent need,
but S.Arabia should establish its own defense industry, and the only way to do this as quickly/cost effective as possible is to work with Turkiye

Arab Countries must break free from complete dependence on the US.

 

[_Arabia_]

The difference is that Turkey is also developing its own projects.

KAAN instead of the F-35
SIPER-2 instead of PATRIOT
SIPER-3/4 instead of THAAD

And Turkiye is very close to that, just 5-7 years away.

Saudi Arabia may acquire American weapons as an urgent need,
but S.Arabia should establish its own defense industry, and the only way to do this as quickly/cost effective as possible is to work with Turkiye

Arab Countries must break free from complete dependence on the US.

Turkiye started much earlier than KSA plus Turkiye has a larger population and NATO standards since 1950's.

Turkiye should be comparing itself with Germany, France, UK etc.

In short, Turkiye started much earlier so the development arch is very different.

However KSA has made quantum leaps in the last 10 years.

KSA has done that. You can do some research on this topic. There are many defense firms in KSA that are booming. SAMI and a host of private ones.

KSA, while the US remains the single most important defense partner, for instance our strategic missile force is mostly due to KSA-China cooperation. The US is not involved at all.

Thread 'Royal Saudi Arabia Armed forces'

Feb 4, 2024

Saudi Armed Forces





Royal Saudi Land Forces - RSLF
​

The nation’s impregnable fortress, its strong shield, its deterrent power, and the nucleus of the Saudi military forces. It is the first regular Saudi military force whose emergence was witnessed in the region’s military theater.

The ground forces are distributed among eight military regions covering the entire geographical scope of the Kingdom, and it consists of several regional commands, independent weapons, colleges, institutes, advanced schools, formations, departments, bodies...

• The SC
• Replies: 554
• Forum: Arab Defence Forum

• 
• 

Other areas as well.

There have been drone cooperation with China too. Laser technology. Chinese radars like the SLC-7 radar.

KSA also has defense cooperation with UK (Typhoon - that Turkiye just bought), France, Italy, SPAIN (Navantia) and others.

Not only US. But top, top key strategic offensive and defensive weapons like F-15-SA, THAAD, Patriots, Abrams, now F-35 etc. are American indeed

 

[MMM-E]

Ultimately, out of 1.8 billion people in the Islamic world, Turkiye was the only country that chose the right path.

If you don't have a strong defense industry, your national security will always be in the hands of other Countries and at their mercy.

There is jealousy and rivalry within the Islamic world.
They kneel and submit to christian the US and Europe, but when it comes to doing business with Muslim Turkiye, their pride gets the better of them.

 

[_Arabia_]

Ultimately, out of 1.8 billion people in the Islamic world, Turkiye was the only country that chose the right path.

If you don't have a strong defense industry, your national security will always be in the hands of other Countries and at their mercy.

There is jealousy and rivalry within the Islamic world.
They kneel and submit to christian the US and Europe, but when it comes to doing business with Muslim Turkiye, their pride gets the better of them.

You did that much latter than you could have done as well. Where was this Turkish development (to this degree) in the 1950's, 1960's, 1970's, 1980's, 1990's or even early 2000's?

It did not occur overnight.

KSA and most other Arab states (large ones and the wealthy ones) are following suit. The development arch is different though.

As I wrote KSA has taken QUANTOM leaps within the past 10 years alone. Some very impressive developments have occurred. Most importantly in the area of HUMAN capital.

Nobody, at least not KSA, is jealous. If that was the case KSA would not be investing in Turkiye or buying Turkish defense products.

Besides KSA and Turkiye are not enemies nor are we going to war with each other or done that before.

Anyway in order to truly keep the US and Israel at bay in the region nuclear weapons are needed and similar weapons. Rest is noise. No amount of great drones, fighter jets, missiles etc. will matter if we do not have nuclear weapons.

Israel can do what they want in the region because of their nuclear triad and alliance with US (another nuclear triad superpower).

Turkiye alone cannot deal with those 2 so it is also in the interest of Turkiye (and wider region) that strong Muslim nations emerge with strong powerful weapons that can project some kind of deterrence and power.

Anyway I really have to go now so I am ending it here this time around.

 

[MMM-E]

You did that much latter than you could have done as well. Where was this Turkish development (to this degree) in the 1950's, 1960's, 1970's, 1980's, 1990's or even early 2000's?

Turkiye has developed Aircraft even in 1930s and 1940s
but Pro-USA Politicans-Generals stopped Turkish Industry after 1947

And USA-Israel backed military Coups by 1960 , 1971 , 1980 , 1997 blocked Türkiye's national technology initiative.

Thanks to President ERDOGAN and his great support it has received over the last 20 years , despite all the obstacles, including the 2016 military coup attempt, Turkiye has become one of the leading Countries in the world for advanced technologies and Defense Industry

 

[MMM-E]

Anyway in order to truly keep the US and Israel at bay in the region nuclear weapons are needed and similar weapons. Rest is noise. No amount of great drones, fighter jets, missiles etc. will matter if we do not have nuclear weapons..

Turkiye alone cannot deal with those 2 so it is also in the interest of Turkiye (and wider region) that strong Muslim nations emerge with strong powerful weapons that can project some kind of deterrence and power.

Why couldn't they clearly win against Iran ? Iran has no nuclear weapons.

If Iran didn't have its own defense industry... Iran would have already raised the white flag

If you possess a very deterrent conventional military power, Israel can do nothing
Turkiye is very close to achieving this.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

What is more effective than nuclear weapons are proxy forces.

Israel uses USA , India , Greece , PKK-YPG and other terror groups as pawns for zionist Plans in the region

 

[MMM-E]

21.06.2026 Cairo/Egypt

Egypt-Turkiye-Pakistan-KSA alliance

 

[FuturePAF]

Israeli media warns of a new regional axis led by Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Turkey with Pakistani nuclear support​

View attachment 202569

Israeli media highlighted what it described as the features of the formation of a new regional axis that includes Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, and Pakistan, considering that this trend may lead to redrawing the balance of power in the Middle East and reducing the traditional dependence on the Western security umbrella.

According to these reports, the four countries are seeking to build a broader strategic and security cooperation framework, based on increased political and military coordination between the most prominent Sunni forces in the region, in light of the rapid transformations taking place in the Middle East and the escalation of tensions related to Iran and Israel.

Israeli analyzes believe that this rapprochement may develop into something resembling an independent regional security platform, whose goal is to enhance the ability to manage regional crises and provide alternatives to foreign interventions, with a focus on security, defense, military technology and industrial cooperation files.

Reports indicated that Saudi Arabia plays a pivotal role in promoting this path.

On the military side, Pakistan stands out as the most sensitive element within this potential bloc, given its possession of nuclear weapons. Israeli media believe that the growing defense partnership between Riyadh and Islamabad may create what some analyzes describe as a “Pakistani nuclear umbrella,” which may add a new dimension to deterrence equations in the Middle East.

These estimates are based on the defense cooperation agreement signed between Saudi Arabia and Pakistan during the year 2025, which included provisions for joint military coordination and collective dealing with security threats. Israeli reports also indicated the deployment of Pakistani forces, fighters, and air defense systems inside the Kingdom during 2026 within the framework of enhancing military cooperation between the two countries.

View attachment 202568

At the same time, both Turkey and Saudi Arabia continue to expand their defense cooperation, especially in the fields of drones and advanced aviation industries, including the Turkish fifth-generation fighter project “KAAN,” while Egypt continues to strengthen its military and regional partnerships within the growing network of relations between these countries.

Some Israeli circles warn that the emergence of such an axis may limit Israel's margin for strategic maneuvering, whether at the regional level or in its relationship with the United States, especially if it succeeds in presenting itself as a security framework capable of addressing the region's crises from within.

On the other hand, the same analyzes indicate that this potential bloc may raise concerns among other regional parties, as Iran may view it as a direct challenge to its influence, while it may contribute to accelerating arms races and reshaping military balances in the Middle East.

Reports also pointed out that Pakistan's possession of a nuclear arsenal and long-range missiles, including Shaheen-III missiles, gives this cooperation an additional deterrent dimension, at a time when Saudi Arabia prefers to rely on strategic partnerships and external security protection rather than seeking to develop an independent military nuclear program.

In general, the Israeli media believes that any strategic rapprochement between Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, and Pakistan may constitute one of the most prominent geopolitical changes in the region in the coming years, with repercussions on the traditional balance of power and regional and international relations.

Hopefully a good test of this alliance would be helping to broker and secure the end of the Sudanese civil war, as well as Libyan and Somali fragmentation. The Israeli-Somaliland issue as well as the weakened and disunited Sudan and Libya are vulnerabilities to stability right in the midst of the alliance; potential launching pads for opponents of the alliance.

Egypt and Turkey would probably be best placed to help in Libya and Sudan, with Turkey and Pakistan best placed to help in Somalia.

 

[FuturePAF]

The difference is that Turkey is also developing its own projects.

KAAN instead of the F-35
SIPER-2 instead of PATRIOT
SIPER-3/4 instead of THAAD

And Turkiye is very close to that, just 5-7 years away.

Saudi Arabia may acquire American weapons as an urgent need,
but S.Arabia should establish its own defense industry, and the only way to do this as quickly/cost effective as possible is to work with Turkiye

Arab Countries must break free from complete dependence on the US.

A good place to start might be for Saudi Arabia to join the TF-2000 Destroyer program, alongside Pakistan and Egypt. Fielding ships that can protect the SLOCs. Considering all in the Saudis are paying $6 billion for Four 4000 ton ships (plus munitions and support), joining a program for much more capable platform, and associated munitions such as Siper 2 and 3 makes sense. Production of Siper series of missiles seems a good place for all 4 nations to start.

Commitment to naval production across all four nations, of a common design, could lower the cost of production and support, allow the fielding of a Large number of ships of the type across the four navies, as well as possible procurements by friendly nations such as South east Asia, in need of large modern warships, further enhancing the SLOC defense support base all the way to the pacific.

 

[Nimble]

There is no Samson option against this alliance..first Turkey controls about 40 US nukes among 80.. Saudi Arabia has at least 7 nukes according to CIA experts..Egypt has at least a few nuclear heads courtesy of Russia during the 1973 Ramadan war with Israel fully backed by the US..Pakistan has enough for the Hinduvta..it can spare a few for other ennemies for sure..

This is very true.... few years back I had gone through an article in very reliable local Maharashtra ( Indian state ) newspaper that is published in local Marathi language which was about Hidden Nuclear Powers of the world....

In that Saudi Arabia was confirmed said having nukes because of Pakistan and that time number told was 5 to 6 minimum which is very close to the number 7 you mentioned above.... not only this but article further said that these nukes are already integrated in missile forces of the kingdom.....

For Egypt yes the article said that during Soviet era Soviets left few larger sized nuclear warheads in Egypt which they never took back as it was GIFTED by them to Egypt to have a strategic leverage in the middle east and sensitive suez region.... only thing as per article it was not confirmed that wither Egypt had capability as of then to deliver these warheads on compatible platforms as designs were older and large in size.... don't know the status now....

You will be surprised to know that America even spotted nuclear activity in Myanmar in 2006 and there were Iran type underground tunnel structures found as per America.... thanks to power and influence of China have on Myanmar it never came in discussions further.....

 

[Nimble]

Why couldn't they clearly win against Iran ? Iran has no nuclear weapons.

If Iran didn't have its own defense industry... Iran would have already raised the white flag

If you possess a very deterrent conventional military power, Israel can do nothing
Turkiye is very close to achieving this.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

What is more effective than nuclear weapons are proxy forces.

Israel uses USA , India , Greece , PKK-YPG and other terror groups as pawns for zionist Plans in the region

India is Israel's proxy??
What are you saying???
Are you out of your mind????

BTW not America but Israel is American proxy in the middle east....

 

[_Arabia_]

This is very true.... few years back I had gone through an article in very reliable local Maharashtra ( Indian state ) newspaper that is published in local Marathi language which was about Hidden Nuclear Powers of the world....

In that Saudi Arabia was confirmed said having nukes because of Pakistan and that time number told was 5 to 6 minimum which is very close to the number 7 you mentioned above.... not only this but article further said that these nukes are already integrated in missile forces of the kingdom.....

For Egypt yes the article said that during Soviet era Soviets left few larger sized nuclear warheads in Egypt which they never took back as it was GIFTED by them to Egypt to have a strategic leverage in the middle east and sensitive suez region.... only thing as per article it was not confirmed that wither Egypt had capability as of then to deliver these warheads on compatible platforms as designs were older and large in size.... don't know the status now....

You will be surprised to know that America even spotted nuclear activity in Myanmar in 2006 and there were Iran type underground tunnel structures found as per America.... thanks to power and influence of China have on Myanmar it never came in discussions further.....

So now we have US, Israeli, Iranian and Indian (I probably missed the other ones) sources that claim that KSA has nuclear weapons already. A pattern seems to be forming.

Why couldn't they clearly win against Iran ? Iran has no nuclear weapons.

If Iran didn't have its own defense industry... Iran would have already raised the white flag

If you possess a very deterrent conventional military power, Israel can do nothing
Turkiye is very close to achieving this.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

What is more effective than nuclear weapons are proxy forces.

Israel uses USA , India , Greece , PKK-YPG and other terror groups as pawns for zionist Plans in the region

I disagree. Nuclear weapons are absolutely needed as they are the ultimate deterrent. As long as Israel is a nuclear triad state - they will have the military advantage. Otherwise without that (Israeli nuclear weapons) and US/Western support, a few Arab militias could defeat Israel.

We know that the nuclearization of KSA will be similar to that of Pakistan, just to ensure itself not to be invaded by other superpowers.

Since KSA has recently greatly shifted its oil pegged currency from the usd to rmb.

China should secure a secret deal with the KSA.

That could be an interesting idea. Given the key role in Saudi Arabia's strategic missile force and other key sectors, that China has played, since the 1980's, this could be a workable arrangement. In return KSA could secure a constant stream of oil, gas, minerals, cash (whenever needed) and possible access for Chinese military expansion in the region.

KSA/Arabia/GCC could act as the gateway to Africa alone which will be the most populous continent in the future (by far) and home to the fastest growing future economies. Africa is also incredibly rich in natural resources, farmland etc.

In any case, KSA or other leading Arab nations have to pursue nuclear energy, nuclear technology and ultimately nuclear weapons. Otherwise we will be at the mercy of Israel/USA and others forever.

Again, I would personally never use nuclear weapons myself nor am I a fan of the prospect of mankind destroying itself and the world many times over, but the value of nuclear weapons are first and foremost as a deterrent in an all-out war or existential war.

 

[Nimble]

So now we have US, Israeli, Iranian and Indian (I probably missed the other ones) sources that claim that KSA has nuclear weapons already. A pattern seems to be forming.



I disagree. Nuclear weapons are absolutely needed as they are the ultimate deterrent. As long as Israel is a nuclear triad state - they will have the military advantage. Otherwise without that (Israeli nuclear weapons) and US/Western support, a few Arab militias could defeat Israel.


That could be an interesting idea. Given the key role in Saudi Arabia's strategic missile force and other key sectors, that China has played, since the 1980's, this could be a workable arrangement. In return KSA could secure a constant stream of oil, gas, minerals, cash (whenever needed) and possible access for Chinese military expansion in the region.

KSA/Arabia/GCC could act as the gateway to Africa alone which will be the most populous continent in the future (by far) and home to the fastest growing future economies. Africa is also incredibly rich in natural resources, farmland etc.

In any case, KSA or other leading Arab nations have to pursue nuclear energy, nuclear technology and ultimately nuclear weapons. Otherwise we will be at the mercy of Israel/USA and others forever.

Again, I would personally never use nuclear weapons myself nor am I a fan of the prospect of mankind destroying itself and the world many times over, but the value of nuclear weapons are first and foremost as a deterrent in an all-out war or existential war.

Pakistan's nuclear program was funded by Saudi Arabia and it was already a done deal that Saudi will have some warheads....

When Saudi Arabia confidently said if Iran goes nuclear then Saudi Arabia too would get those.... it just meant that Saudi would just take 1 or 2 warheads from storage, detonate those and declare herself as a nuclear power....

Article further even said that highly advance nations like Japan or South Korea if decide then would just require few weeks to have a nuclear bomb....