AJK govt bans Joint Awami Action Committee, notification issued

rubbish

dont hide behind your criminal governance....
Just shamelessly slandering. No substance as usual. The clan cannot tell us of a single good they have done to Pakistan. I mean what you can expect from those beghairat jerks who suck Hindutva Modi and spread Indian lies and narrative. I hope Bajwa and Pasha kind of fools must be feeling ashamed and fallen ti disgrace in their own eyes for what they have done to Pakistan.

The people of Pakistan have rejected these liars time and again despite youthias sucking American congressmen/senators and spreading lies on social media. Youthias had high hopes to get their haqeeqi azadi from Trump before he became the president. Trump threw them in a dust bin. Let them seeks Haqeeqi Azadi' now from America by sucking Americans.
 
While admirable as bravado - Simple explanations are however, chicken soup for the soul and that was not his unforgiveable sin to the establishment and had more to do with tit for tat on "boundaries" on "excesses".

Yes, the Americans found IK's comment brash but the cipher is the ultimate trojan horse for both IK and establishment on real issues.


On the subject of "convenient fools" and not that I condone dictators - but unlike Ayub and Musharraf - Zai ul Haq had one redeeming aspect that he was still pushing some key strategic ideals forward while behaving as a cooperative individual elsewhere.
For that matter post Musharraf Gen K stood firm on aspects (while compromising elsewhere) and so on.

The "line in the sand" then isnt a dictator aspect alone and requires replacement of a lot of other key figures within the establishment.

More importantly, while great for populism and as I mentioned elsewhere "simpler explanation for Pakistani educated suffering from complex PTSD" - Absolutely Not - is simply unaffordable for Pakistan especially where it stands DUE TO policies of the establishment(and others if you even dig into how much bending PPPP did in its time).

IK cardinal sin isnt "absolutely not" - it is abandoning his own principles for the "chalice" while not being really that politically shrewd as expected.
Actually , IK never had any principles that he abandoned for a sip of vintage wine from the " chalice " ...he played to the visceral emotions of the public without any regard for the consequences.
 
Actually , IK never had any principles that he abandoned for a sip of vintage wine from the " chalice " ...he played to the visceral emotions of the public without any regard for the consequences.
...consequences not just for him but consequences for the country. It didn't matter if Pakistan burned - everything about the country was wrong because Khan wasn't in power. The moment he got elected, suddenly the army was the best army in the world but the politicans except those in his cabinet were corrupt to the core. He was a world of conflicts in himself; not known as U turn Khan for being politically consistent. Also what is staggering is how little people understand the extent of how pro-Taliban the PTI is/was. Imran's defence of the TTP famously led to them nominating him as their representative in peacetalks with the government. Staggering.
 
You could be a living proof of a illegitimate child of a mafia member.

They have long history of s@x outside marriage, from Yahya Khan to Captain safdar in the garage.
Yeah may be you are sharing personal experience.
 
...consequences not just for him but consequences for the country. It didn't matter if Pakistan burned - everything about the country was wrong because Khan wasn't in power. The moment he got elected, suddenly the army was the best army in the world but the politicans except those in his cabinet were corrupt to the core. He was a world of conflicts in himself; not known as U turn Khan for being politically consistent. Also what is staggering is how little people understand the extent of how pro-Taliban the PTI is/was. Imran's defence of the TTP famously led to them nominating him as their representative in peacetalks with the government. Staggering.

We wouldn't have a party that looked kindly on our Indian enemy

So why would we tolerate a party that looks kindly on our Afghan enemy
 
Actually , IK never had any principles that he abandoned for a sip of vintage wine from the " chalice " ...he played to the visceral emotions of the public without any regard for the consequences.
Not entirely - people are often victims of their own egos. When you achieve lofty ideals and receive endless praise, it is easy to start excusing your own compromises and mistakes under the guise of serving a "greater cause." Most of humanity does this on a small scale, but everyday people face checks and balances from a boss or a system to keep them grounded.

I have done it, likely you have too along with 99% of humanity.. except for majority of people there are checks and balances from bigger fish - be it humans or a system.

In the position that IK(or for that matter Hafiz jee) - for his impressive achievements and they need no calling out as they are - where you were already in a state of hero worship - then a different type of personality emerges from such achievements which is shaped according to what your baseline character was...

Not the point of discussion here but in a closing note no differrent than what FM, Mushy or even Nawaz come out to be - your underlying personality and environment get amplified and moulded by opportunities and successes to where if you already were someone using cunning and hypocrisy to move up the ladder like Bhutto from his "Zulfi" days.. then you will only amplify those when you start moving up the ladder.

Another extreme example on the other side - Jinnah was a man who built his reputation based on his principles and character. He started as a constitutional lawyer, built his reputation on discipline, legality, and argument, and was known for refusing shortcuts, favors, and political theatre when they cut against principle.

So, if you look at AJK situation now - unchecked ego and belief that "my cause justifies my actions" is exactly why the establishment inflamed the recent AJK protests instead of resolving them and created the opportunity for external players to exploit. On the other hand, Claiming IK would have magically solved it ignores the reality that his leadership, shaped by the same ego-driven hero worship and lack of systemic checks, would have likely made similar mistakes ESPECIALLY since the record on Afghanistan shows proof of this.

Either way, IK hota ya na hota is typical cultist BS. Woh Jail main band hai - kyun band hai, kab bahar ayega , agar bahar ayega tu kya karega sirf khayali pulao time pass hai jo uss ke jiyalay/mureed apne shauq se lage rahein meri bala se.

Iss waqt jo khurpay hain, jo kiya , kyun kya, kya hoga aur kya karna chahiye .. woh dekhiye.
 
While admirable as bravado - Simple explanations are however, chicken soup for the soul and that was not his unforgiveable sin to the establishment and had more to do with tit for tat on "boundaries" on "excesses".

Yes, the Americans found IK's comment brash but the cipher is the ultimate trojan horse for both IK and establishment on real issues.


On the subject of "convenient fools" and not that I condone dictators - but unlike Ayub and Musharraf - Zai ul Haq had one redeeming aspect that he was still pushing some key strategic ideals forward while behaving as a cooperative individual elsewhere.
For that matter post Musharraf Gen K stood firm on aspects (while compromising elsewhere) and so on.

The "line in the sand" then isnt a dictator aspect alone and requires replacement of a lot of other key figures within the establishment.

More importantly, while great for populism and as I mentioned elsewhere "simpler explanation for Pakistani educated suffering from complex PTSD" - Absolutely Not - is simply unaffordable for Pakistan especially where it stands DUE TO policies of the establishment(and others if you even dig into how much bending PPPP did in its time).

IK cardinal sin isnt "absolutely not" - it is abandoning his own principles for the "chalice" while not being really that politically shrewd as expected.

Yes, you do make some valid points, and I understand those nuances.... That is exactly why I started my post with "Apparently"...... But that is somewhat besides the point.... What you believe (or what I believe, for that matter) doesn't really change the reality on the ground... The fact is that an overwhelming number of Pakistanis believe Imran Khan has been grossly wronged, and that voting for him is the right way forward...

As for the endless vilification of a man who is already in jail alongside his wife under unjust circumstances (we are seeing plenty of that on this thread and elsewhere), the military establishment has already thrown everything it has at that effort, and it has failed rather spectacularly...... Whether it is facts, half truths, or outright nonsense, no propaganda campaign has managed to dent Khan's popularity..... If anyone can bring Khan down, it is Khan himself.

And on the point about the International Establishment backing (or helping install) dictators in Pakistan when circumstances suited them, I stand by that view.....But that is a much bigger discussion for another thread....
 
Yes, you do make some valid points, and I understand those nuances.... That is exactly why I started my post with "Apparently"...... But that is somewhat besides the point.... What you believe (or what I believe, for that matter) doesn't really change the reality on the ground... The fact is that an overwhelming number of Pakistanis believe Imran Khan has been grossly wronged, and that voting for him is the right way forward...

As for the endless vilification of a man who is already in jail alongside his wife under unjust circumstances (we are seeing plenty of that on this thread and elsewhere), the military establishment has already thrown everything it has at that effort, and it has failed rather spectacularly...... Whether it is facts, half truths, or outright nonsense, no propaganda campaign has managed to dent Khan's popularity..... If anyone can bring Khan down, it is Khan himself.

And on the point about the International Establishment backing (or helping install) dictators in Pakistan when circumstances suited them, I stand by that view.....But that is a much bigger discussion for another thread....
You are still in yesterday's jalsas , crowd has disappeared and has accepted the new realities as fiat accompli ... move on my friend.
 
You are still in yesterday's jalsas , crowd has disappeared and has accepted the new realities as fiat accompli ... move on my friend.

That is exactly what I (like many others including the establishment itself) believed until February 2024 proved otherwise.... IK is still hugely popular among the masses (mainly because his opponents are themselves deeply unpopular)... and until there is another genuinely free election to test that proposition, there is no compelling reason to revise that view....
 
Yes, you do make some valid points, and I understand those nuances.... That is exactly why I started my post with "Apparently"...... But that is somewhat besides the point.... What you believe (or what I believe, for that matter) doesn't really change the reality on the ground... The fact is that an overwhelming number of Pakistanis believe Imran Khan has been grossly wronged, and that voting for him is the right way forward...

As for the endless vilification of a man who is already in jail alongside his wife under unjust circumstances (we are seeing plenty of that on this thread and elsewhere), the military establishment has already thrown everything it has at that effort, and it has failed rather spectacularly...... Whether it is facts, half truths, or outright nonsense, no propaganda campaign has managed to dent Khan's popularity..... If anyone can bring Khan down, it is Khan himself.

And on the point about the International Establishment backing (or helping install) dictators in Pakistan when circumstances suited them, I stand by that view.....But that is a much bigger discussion for another thread....
I dont believe the argument is with the facts - after all a large majority voted trump in office and a in history a large majority welcomed Zia's rape of the country under Islamization and the same welcomed the runaway commando Mushy.

But that doesn't mean just because something is popular we engage in cultist populism just because it is popular nor victimhood beliefs that only foreign powers can install dictators and that a system perpetuated by utter illiteracy , ignorance and crappy social culture mired in outdated tribalism disguised as pseudo religious ideals is simply innocent in the matter.
 
I dont believe the argument is with the facts - after all a large majority voted trump in office and a in history a large majority welcomed Zia's rape of the country under Islamization and the same welcomed the runaway commando Mushy.

But that doesn't mean just because something is popular we engage in cultist populism just because it is popular nor victimhood beliefs that only foreign powers can install dictators and that a system perpetuated by utter illiteracy , ignorance and crappy social culture mired in outdated tribalism disguised as pseudo religious ideals is simply innocent in the matter.

You are arguing against a point I never made.... I didn't say popularity makes someone right, or that IK should be supported because he is popular... I said Khan remains overwhelmingly popular and that most Pakistanis believe he has been wronged..... Those are observations, not endorsements of "cultist populism".. ..

Also, acknowledging the role of foreign powers in backing dictators doesn't require pretending local actors bear no responsibility.... Both can be true at the same time....

And frankly, dismissing millions of voters as merely ignorant, tribal, or manipulated because they disagree with you is neither a particularly convincing argument nor a particularly democratic one.... And quite ironically, this kind of elitist contempt for the public is just another form of "cultism" you so strongly pretend to condemn..
 
That is exactly what I (like many others including the establishment itself) believed until February 2024 proved otherwise.... IK is still hugely popular among the masses (mainly because his opponents are themselves deeply unpopular)... and until there is another genuinely free election to test that proposition, there is no compelling reason to revise that view....
2 and 1/2 years since February 2024 and lots of water has flown under the bridge since then , see the world with new glasses 🤓.....btw , sometimes robbers and bandits become cult heroes , does that mean we put them in power because of their popularity ?
 
You are arguing against a point I never made.... I didn't say popularity makes someone right, or that IK should be supported because he is popular... I said Khan remains overwhelmingly popular and that most Pakistanis believe he has been wronged..... Those are observations, not endorsements of "cultist populism".. ..

Also, acknowledging the role of foreign powers in backing dictators doesn't require pretending local actors bear no responsibility.... Both can be true at the same time....

And frankly, dismissing millions of voters as merely ignorant, tribal, or manipulated because they disagree with you is neither a particularly convincing argument nor a particularly democratic one.... And quite ironically, this kind of elitist contempt for the public is just another form of "cultism" you so strongly pretend to condemn..
You are contradictory in your own argument - and in a double jeopardy of irony - accuse me of bad-faith assumptions to condemn my argument on a corrupt society(which includes the elitist system) while trying to take the high horse on millions of voters.

So while you are saying right here "I didn't say popularity makes someone right" and then go around to say it does because "millions of voters as merely ignorant, tribal, or manipulated because they disagree with you"

Take your pick then - am I elitist because the popular vote makes IK right and I dont agree or that popularity doesnt make you right?
Which is it?
 
You are contradictory in your own argument - and in a double jeopardy of irony - accuse me of bad-faith assumptions to condemn my argument on a corrupt society(which includes the elitist system) while trying to take the high horse on millions of voters.

So while you are saying right here "I didn't say popularity makes someone right" and then go around to say it does because "millions of voters as merely ignorant, tribal, or manipulated because they disagree with you"

Take your pick then - am I elitist because the popular vote makes IK right and I dont agree or that popularity doesnt make you right?
Which is it?

Neither.... You are conflating two entirely different points...

You are confusing "Khan is popular" with "Khan is correct because he is popular" and then demanding I resolve a contradiction that exists only in your own interpretation.....

Disagree with Khan all you want.... But when your explanation for his support boils down to millions of people being ignorant, tribal, and manipulated, don't be surprised when people point out the rather obvious elitism in that argument...

In short, you are arguing with a strawman and then congratulating yourself for defeating it.....

Ànd I believe that we have known each other on this forum long enough to do better than chasing strawmen...
 
Neither.... You are conflating two entirely different points...

You are confusing "Khan is popular" with "Khan is correct because he is popular" and then demanding I resolve a contradiction that exists only in your own interpretation.....

Disagree with Khan all you want.... But when your explanation for his support boils down to millions of people being ignorant, tribal, and manipulated, don't be surprised when people point out the rather obvious elitism in that argument...

In short, you are arguing with a strawman and then congratulating yourself for defeating it.....

Ànd I believe that we have known each other on this forum long enough to do better than chasing strawmen...
I merely put your own words to highlight how contradictory they were and now you are dismissing it all as "strawman" ...fine.

You are SORELY MISTAKEN - and MISCONSTRUING my post to assume that I say support for IK is driven by millions of people being ignorant and tribal or manipulated.

Let's be clear: Imran Khan and the PTI gained massive popularity for very genuine reasons. People ARE exhausted by decades of dynastic politics, systemic corruption, and economic mismanagement from the PML-N and PPP. The desire for accountability, a third political option, and a break from the status quo were entirely valid reasons for his rise.

However, acknowledging that genuine appeal does not erase the fact that PTI also heavily relied on the exact same repackaged populist rhetoric that has historically worked on the masses in Pakistan.

My critique of "illiteracy, ignorance, and outdated tribalism" was a broader diagnosis of the systemic flaws in our political culture that have historically enabled flawed leadership whether it was under Zia, Musharraf, or anyone else. In that specific paragraph I am highlighting the overarching environment that allows victimhood narratives to thrive, not a targeted insult at Imran Khan’s specific voter base.

Why do you specifically take it at IK?(and where I said "double jeopardy of irony" end up as the one creating the strawman argument).

Or are you dismissive that Pakistani society even from the early 50s has historically been shaped by pseudo-religious manipulation and tribalism? Or just stating that the objectives resolution or state surrender to Anti-Qadiyani riots isnt proof of that but my engaging in "elitism"?



If we cannot honestly critique the social conditions that perpetuate our political cycles without crying "elitism," we are simply choosing to remain blind to the root of the problem.
 

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