AJK govt bans Joint Awami Action Committee, notification issued

[Oscar]

Apparently, IK's unforgivable sin was saying "Absolutely Not" to the American overlords of our dollar Khor Jurnails...

And as subsequent events have shown, the Yankees needed more spineless lackeys in Pak office to serve as the fallback option for their planned aggression against Iran....

Just as they "coincidentally" had Ayub in office during the Cold War, Zia during the Soviet Afghan War, and Musharraf during the so called War on Terror.... At some point, a pattern ceases to be a coincidence...

While admirable as bravado - Simple explanations are however, chicken soup for the soul and that was not his unforgiveable sin to the establishment and had more to do with tit for tat on "boundaries" on "excesses".

Yes, the Americans found IK's comment brash but the cipher is the ultimate trojan horse for both IK and establishment on real issues.


On the subject of "convenient fools" and not that I condone dictators - but unlike Ayub and Musharraf - Zai ul Haq had one redeeming aspect that he was still pushing some key strategic ideals forward while behaving as a cooperative individual elsewhere.
For that matter post Musharraf Gen K stood firm on aspects (while compromising elsewhere) and so on.

The "line in the sand" then isnt a dictator aspect alone and requires replacement of a lot of other key figures within the establishment.

More importantly, while great for populism and as I mentioned elsewhere "simpler explanation for Pakistani educated suffering from complex PTSD" - Absolutely Not - is simply unaffordable for Pakistan especially where it stands DUE TO policies of the establishment(and others if you even dig into how much bending PPPP did in its time).

IK cardinal sin isnt "absolutely not" - it is abandoning his own principles for the "chalice" while not being really that politically shrewd as expected.

 

[gamaji]

rubbish

dont hide behind your criminal governance....

Just shamelessly slandering. No substance as usual. The clan cannot tell us of a single good they have done to Pakistan. I mean what you can expect from those beghairat jerks who suck Hindutva Modi and spread Indian lies and narrative. I hope Bajwa and Pasha kind of fools must be feeling ashamed and fallen ti disgrace in their own eyes for what they have done to Pakistan.

The people of Pakistan have rejected these liars time and again despite youthias sucking American congressmen/senators and spreading lies on social media. Youthias had high hopes to get their haqeeqi azadi from Trump before he became the president. Trump threw them in a dust bin. Let them seeks Haqeeqi Azadi' now from America by sucking Americans.

 

[mythbuster]

While admirable as bravado - Simple explanations are however, chicken soup for the soul and that was not his unforgiveable sin to the establishment and had more to do with tit for tat on "boundaries" on "excesses".

Yes, the Americans found IK's comment brash but the cipher is the ultimate trojan horse for both IK and establishment on real issues.


On the subject of "convenient fools" and not that I condone dictators - but unlike Ayub and Musharraf - Zai ul Haq had one redeeming aspect that he was still pushing some key strategic ideals forward while behaving as a cooperative individual elsewhere.
For that matter post Musharraf Gen K stood firm on aspects (while compromising elsewhere) and so on.

The "line in the sand" then isnt a dictator aspect alone and requires replacement of a lot of other key figures within the establishment.

More importantly, while great for populism and as I mentioned elsewhere "simpler explanation for Pakistani educated suffering from complex PTSD" - Absolutely Not - is simply unaffordable for Pakistan especially where it stands DUE TO policies of the establishment(and others if you even dig into how much bending PPPP did in its time).

IK cardinal sin isnt "absolutely not" - it is abandoning his own principles for the "chalice" while not being really that politically shrewd as expected.

Actually , IK never had any principles that he abandoned for a sip of vintage wine from the " chalice " ...he played to the visceral emotions of the public without any regard for the consequences.

 

[diaspora]

Actually , IK never had any principles that he abandoned for a sip of vintage wine from the " chalice " ...he played to the visceral emotions of the public without any regard for the consequences.

...consequences not just for him but consequences for the country. It didn't matter if Pakistan burned - everything about the country was wrong because Khan wasn't in power. The moment he got elected, suddenly the army was the best army in the world but the politicans except those in his cabinet were corrupt to the core. He was a world of conflicts in himself; not known as U turn Khan for being politically consistent. Also what is staggering is how little people understand the extent of how pro-Taliban the PTI is/was. Imran's defence of the TTP famously led to them nominating him as their representative in peacetalks with the government. Staggering.

 

[Jagga Badmash]

You could be a living proof of a illegitimate child of a mafia member.

They have long history of s@x outside marriage, from Yahya Khan to Captain safdar in the garage.

Yeah may be you are sharing personal experience.

 

[hussain0216]

...consequences not just for him but consequences for the country. It didn't matter if Pakistan burned - everything about the country was wrong because Khan wasn't in power. The moment he got elected, suddenly the army was the best army in the world but the politicans except those in his cabinet were corrupt to the core. He was a world of conflicts in himself; not known as U turn Khan for being politically consistent. Also what is staggering is how little people understand the extent of how pro-Taliban the PTI is/was. Imran's defence of the TTP famously led to them nominating him as their representative in peacetalks with the government. Staggering.

We wouldn't have a party that looked kindly on our Indian enemy

So why would we tolerate a party that looks kindly on our Afghan enemy

 

[Oscar]

Actually , IK never had any principles that he abandoned for a sip of vintage wine from the " chalice " ...he played to the visceral emotions of the public without any regard for the consequences.

Not entirely - people are often victims of their own egos. When you achieve lofty ideals and receive endless praise, it is easy to start excusing your own compromises and mistakes under the guise of serving a "greater cause." Most of humanity does this on a small scale, but everyday people face checks and balances from a boss or a system to keep them grounded.

I have done it, likely you have too along with 99% of humanity.. except for majority of people there are checks and balances from bigger fish - be it humans or a system.

In the position that IK(or for that matter Hafiz jee) - for his impressive achievements and they need no calling out as they are - where you were already in a state of hero worship - then a different type of personality emerges from such achievements which is shaped according to what your baseline character was...

Not the point of discussion here but in a closing note no differrent than what FM, Mushy or even Nawaz come out to be - your underlying personality and environment get amplified and moulded by opportunities and successes to where if you already were someone using cunning and hypocrisy to move up the ladder like Bhutto from his "Zulfi" days.. then you will only amplify those when you start moving up the ladder.

Another extreme example on the other side - Jinnah was a man who built his reputation based on his principles and character. He started as a constitutional lawyer, built his reputation on discipline, legality, and argument, and was known for refusing shortcuts, favors, and political theatre when they cut against principle.

So, if you look at AJK situation now - unchecked ego and belief that "my cause justifies my actions" is exactly why the establishment inflamed the recent AJK protests instead of resolving them and created the opportunity for external players to exploit. On the other hand, Claiming IK would have magically solved it ignores the reality that his leadership, shaped by the same ego-driven hero worship and lack of systemic checks, would have likely made similar mistakes ESPECIALLY since the record on Afghanistan shows proof of this.

Either way, IK hota ya na hota is typical cultist BS. Woh Jail main band hai - kyun band hai, kab bahar ayega , agar bahar ayega tu kya karega sirf khayali pulao time pass hai jo uss ke jiyalay/mureed apne shauq se lage rahein meri bala se.

Iss waqt jo khurpay hain, jo kiya , kyun kya, kya hoga aur kya karna chahiye .. woh dekhiye.

 

[M. Sarmad]

While admirable as bravado - Simple explanations are however, chicken soup for the soul and that was not his unforgiveable sin to the establishment and had more to do with tit for tat on "boundaries" on "excesses".

Yes, the Americans found IK's comment brash but the cipher is the ultimate trojan horse for both IK and establishment on real issues.


On the subject of "convenient fools" and not that I condone dictators - but unlike Ayub and Musharraf - Zai ul Haq had one redeeming aspect that he was still pushing some key strategic ideals forward while behaving as a cooperative individual elsewhere.
For that matter post Musharraf Gen K stood firm on aspects (while compromising elsewhere) and so on.

The "line in the sand" then isnt a dictator aspect alone and requires replacement of a lot of other key figures within the establishment.

More importantly, while great for populism and as I mentioned elsewhere "simpler explanation for Pakistani educated suffering from complex PTSD" - Absolutely Not - is simply unaffordable for Pakistan especially where it stands DUE TO policies of the establishment(and others if you even dig into how much bending PPPP did in its time).

IK cardinal sin isnt "absolutely not" - it is abandoning his own principles for the "chalice" while not being really that politically shrewd as expected.

Yes, you do make some valid points, and I understand those nuances.... That is exactly why I started my post with "Apparently"...... But that is somewhat besides the point.... What you believe (or what I believe, for that matter) doesn't really change the reality on the ground... The fact is that an overwhelming number of Pakistanis believe Imran Khan has been grossly wronged, and that voting for him is the right way forward...

As for the endless vilification of a man who is already in jail alongside his wife under unjust circumstances (we are seeing plenty of that on this thread and elsewhere), the military establishment has already thrown everything it has at that effort, and it has failed rather spectacularly...... Whether it is facts, half truths, or outright nonsense, no propaganda campaign has managed to dent Khan's popularity..... If anyone can bring Khan down, it is Khan himself.

And on the point about the International Establishment backing (or helping install) dictators in Pakistan when circumstances suited them, I stand by that view.....But that is a much bigger discussion for another thread....

 

[mythbuster]

Yes, you do make some valid points, and I understand those nuances.... That is exactly why I started my post with "Apparently"...... But that is somewhat besides the point.... What you believe (or what I believe, for that matter) doesn't really change the reality on the ground... The fact is that an overwhelming number of Pakistanis believe Imran Khan has been grossly wronged, and that voting for him is the right way forward...

As for the endless vilification of a man who is already in jail alongside his wife under unjust circumstances (we are seeing plenty of that on this thread and elsewhere), the military establishment has already thrown everything it has at that effort, and it has failed rather spectacularly...... Whether it is facts, half truths, or outright nonsense, no propaganda campaign has managed to dent Khan's popularity..... If anyone can bring Khan down, it is Khan himself.

And on the point about the International Establishment backing (or helping install) dictators in Pakistan when circumstances suited them, I stand by that view.....But that is a much bigger discussion for another thread....

You are still in yesterday's jalsas , crowd has disappeared and has accepted the new realities as fiat accompli ... move on my friend.