Ex-Singapore Diplomat analysis on Pakistan with Pakistani journalists

[Master Chief]

Moving onto Indians, if you believe they see you as inferior, then you are wrong. Indians have an inferiority complex rooted in both race and religion, and they only lash out in hatred as a coping mechanism in rage. There's no "superiority", it is insecurity they see Pakistanis as generally lighter skinned, better looking and the region's heritage is the actual inheritor of the best history of South Asia, from the Indus Valley main archeological sites to the Vedic ara.

Agree completely. In other words, their * visible * condescension towards us is grossly misplaced. Inside, they burn with insecurity. I think that's the more correct way of phrasing what I was trying to say originally.

 

[PK781]

When was the last time you walked down the street, saw a wrapper strewn across the road and thought to yourself, let me pick that up... This is known as citizenship and civic pride... Words like "introspection" and "change" are seeds planted that rise from the ground up, or as they say... "From tiny acorns do mighty oak's grow".

i feel you bro. We all want best for the country but the awaam have been kept illiterate by the ruling feudals. They don't want change cuz it threatens their hold/power over the masses.
You can easily see so much improvement even in more corrupt countries in africa, latin america, central asia, etc yet we are just stuck in a "nazuk tareen mor of our tareekh" for decades

Hence I come to believe that only a Big WAR can cleanse our country when we have all these feudal families and their entire tabbars taken out.........The current status quo by the army gens is not helping anything.....

 

[Goenitz]

Hence I come to believe that only a Big WAR can cleanse our country when we have all these feudal families and their entire tabbars taken out.........The current status quo by the army gens is not helping anything.....

That is the definition of fitna. Actually, it is a purification process that is achieved through sabr during turmoil. It cleans the person/society.

It is a constant phenomenon and never-ending.
On topic: if Pakistan is fine, then you may not believe Afghanistan is fine too.
The change will only come if people feel agitated. It is a precursor for growth.

 

[c14-Isotope]

His conclusion is no different from others who can read, write and think a bit.
Says a lot about Pakistanis who ask such silly questions, probably buoyed by the intoxicating PR blitz at home. Hopeless!

 

[FuturePAF]

Beautiful post, sadly our Babbu's don't care. Let me give you another example. A dear friend of mine is a double PhD in Engineering and Environmental Science. He was one of 5 Pakistanis who were sponsored by China to study a post doc in China on Environmental Science, where the govt of China spent 20 crore on his group, lodgings, fees, stipend etc.

This was the time the smog situation in Pakistan was critical, his paper on the effects of stubble burning and smog impact on human health was published in China. He returned to Pakistan to help his nation.

Keep in mind that he had studied how China had implemented cleaner air reforms in Beijing, read this paper here if you have time:

Clearing the skies: how Beijing tackled air pollution & what lies ahead - ICLEI Sustainable Mobility

Following years of air pollution related challenges, Beijing has made remarkable strides in recent years to improve its air quality

sustainablemobility.iclei.org

Instead of taking his qualified expertise on board, he was ushered out of a meeting with the DG EPA Pakistan, because he debated that the "Anti-Smog vans" being considered for tender by Govt. of Punjab were not fit for purpose and produced the wrong kind of particle, actually making the smog situation worse not better- six months later Punjab launched the Punjab Smog "Cannons".

===
Tldr;

What can you do with these babbus?

The only thing that can be done, is when the political winds shift, the next democratic (non-“hybrid”) government delegates power to independent apolitical planning agencies, who implement real changes, especially ones that jump start economic employment and growth. If the average person feels their lives are improving, it will empower the democratic government to implement more and more reforms, allowing the babus to be eased out of all areas of control.

I gave the local consulate a copy of the book on Japan’s MITI and Modernizers, the two books on how Japan reformed in the post as well as the pre-war period to bring out explosive economic growth. I was hopeful that the CDF, who did advanced training in Japan, would appreciate the books. Japan didn’t get rid of its oligarchs, but got rid of ineffective middle men.

Maybe Pakistan’s rich don’t want to get much more richer. Maybe they want to remain big fish in a small pond, ruling over the serfs we call citizens of Pakistan. This applies even more to the feudal land barons, who hold too much unproductive influence over the majority of the population, who are small farmers, such as my own family use to be.

Then what they are doing is just fine for them.

This does not mean even the oligarchs are beyond redemption. Perhaps the younger generations can see the errors of the ways of their ancestors, and put their energy and finances into growing the pie rather than hoarding it. When people say this is not possible, they fail to realize it has already happened… IK…. He was a member of the oligarchy, who tried, but needed to carry the rest of the oligarchy with him to succeed.

Instead of sending our best and brightest to China first, we should send the oligarchs on an all expenses paid trip to see how China developed. Send them to South Korea, Japan and Singapore. Then finally send them to North Korea and Belarus, so they can see the contrast.

The oligarchs, it seems, are the only ones who get a real vote in Pakistan. It maybe the most effective to turn the young “nobles” of Pakistan’s “second estate”. Give them purpose, rather than their fathers letting them only live lives of low brow debauchery in Dubai nightclubs or at their farmhouse parties in Pakistan.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

The only thing that can be done, is when the political winds shift, the next democratic (non-“hybrid”) government delegates power to independent apolitical planning agencies, who implement real changes, especially ones that jump start economic employment and growth. If the average person feels their lives are improving, it will empower the democratic government to implement more and more reforms, allowing the babus to be eased out of all areas of control.

I gave the local consulate a copy of the book on Japan’s MITI and Modernizers, the two books on how Japan reformed in the post as well as the pre-war period to bring out explosive economic growth. I was hopeful that the CDF, who did advanced training in Japan, would appreciate the books. Japan didn’t get rid of its oligarchs, but got rid of ineffective middle men.

Maybe Pakistan’s rich don’t want to get much more richer. Maybe they want to remain big fish in a small pond, ruling over the serfs we call citizens of Pakistan. This applies even more to the feudal land barons, who hold too much unproductive influence over the majority of the population, who are small farmers, such as my own family use to be.

Then what they are doing is just fine.

This does not mean even the oligarchs are beyond redemption. Perhaps the younger generations can see the errors of the ways of their ancestors, and put their energy and finances into growing the pie rather than hoarding it. When people say this is not possible, they fail to realize it has already happened… IK…. He was a member of the oligarchy, who tried, but needed to carry the rest of the oligarchy with him to succeed.

Instead of sending our best and brightest to China first, we should send the oligarchs on an all expenses paid trip to see how China developed. Send them to South Korea, Japan and Singapore. Then finally send them to North Korea and Belarus, so they can see the contrast.

The oligarchs, it seems, are the only ones who get a real vote in Pakistan. It maybe the most effective to turn the young “nobles” of Pakistan’s “second estate”. Give them purpose, rather than their fathers letting them only live lives of low brow debauchery in Dubai nightclubs or at their farmhouse parties in Pakistan.

Why would a feudal government have an incentive to implement any of these reforms?

Once you understand that these political faces are merely feudals in their medieval kingdom of subjects, you'll understand why none of them care for such reforms.

The only peaceful way where anyone would have the incentive or power to do this would be perhaps a nationalistic army chief that's visionary. But the PPPs and PMLNs certainly dont.

 

[FuturePAF]

Why would a feudal government have an incentive to implement any of these reforms?

Once you understand that these political faces are merely feudals in their medieval kingdom of subjects, you'll understand why none of them care for such reforms.

The only peaceful way where anyone would have the incentive or power to do this would be perhaps a nationalistic army chief that's visionary. But the PPPs and PMLNs certainly dont.

Perhaps not the party officials, but the electables and the apolitical oligarchy. Those that collaborated with these parties, to be allowed to do business.

Growth for them and the nation is in exports. A functional government that facilities their export earning business will make them an order of magnitude richer in a generation, maybe sooner.

 

[Oscar]

Going to be a spoiler here BUT

Citizens not in power know that it has been mismanaged and they know it since 1953.
People in power have known that their predecessor has mismanaged it since 1958.
However, while everyone agrees that mismanagement has occurred- no one wants to truly fix it because truly fixing it requires effort not just from people in power but also people on the ground.

Unfortunately you make efforts for things you actually care about - and the people who inhabit Pakistan DONT ACTUALLY CARE about Pakistan.

That doesnt meant they are heartless people and the overall society's philanthropy and so on should be evidence enough for it - it is just that Pakistan isnt really a thing the people really "wanted" - That doesnt means Sindhis dont want their ancestral land or Balochis theirs and so on - but not many from all of these races today actually "want" Pakistan.

So, talking about mismanagement and getting external analysis is fine...
BUT, who the heck cares?

What possibly are the people getting(or not getting) which they will change by keeping(or not keeping) Pakistan?

If you cannot answer that OR provide enough evidence to people that Pakistan has actual worth today... then you take your cries of mismanagement, establishment, feudal, elite and so on... and keep typing and discussing them to satisfy that impact of change.

 

[Michael]

Beautiful post, sadly our Babbu's don't care. Let me give you another example. A dear friend of mine is a double PhD in Engineering and Environmental Science. He was one of 5 Pakistanis who were sponsored by China to study a post doc in China on Environmental Science, where the govt of China spent 20 crore on his group, lodgings, fees, stipend etc.

This was the time the smog situation in Pakistan was critical, his paper on the effects of stubble burning and smog impact on human health was published in China. He returned to Pakistan to help his nation.

Keep in mind that he had studied how China had implemented cleaner air reforms in Beijing, read this paper here if you have time:

Clearing the skies: how Beijing tackled air pollution & what lies ahead - ICLEI Sustainable Mobility

Following years of air pollution related challenges, Beijing has made remarkable strides in recent years to improve its air quality

sustainablemobility.iclei.org

Instead of taking his qualified expertise on board, he was ushered out of a meeting with the DG EPA Pakistan, because he debated that the "Anti-Smog vans" being considered for tender by Govt. of Punjab were not fit for purpose and produced the wrong kind of particle, actually making the smog situation worse not better- six months later Punjab launched the Punjab Smog "Cannons".

===
Tldr;

What can you do with these babbus?

I deeply regret what happened to your friend. From a nationalist and professional standpoint, he should return to Pakistan to help improve its environment. However, this is not something he can decide. From a personal development perspective, he should have stayed in China. With his professional background, it would have been easy for him to obtain permanent residency in China, and China has both the capability and the willingness to allow him to fully utilize his professional expertise.

Pakistan, or more accurately, most countries in the world, are like this. Ordinary people are easily misled. These people completely lack political and professional common sense. Yet, they are extremely proactive in criticizing and interfering with government and professional institutions. They are even unwilling to spend a little time and effort to research how these things actually work before making their accusations and interference. ------ I don't know if this is what you call "democracy" or "freedom of speech." But it certainly doesn't help the normal operation of the relevant institutions.

As I mentioned on this forum before, many Pakistanis (not all, but many) would rather believe organizations and media manipulated by foreign powers than their own government and their own firsthand experiences. That's truly tragic. The initiator of this thread is a typical example.

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

Listen to this short clip, he has direct experience with Pakistan during his service. He did a full panel with Pakistani journalists.

He says Pakistan has been mismanaged poorly from the beginning, you can't blame others for your issues.

He says it's a feudalistic society and all politicians regardless of parties are useless. He says the military is part of the problem for upholding this status quo, but also holds the country together.

He even says Pakistan has been on the brink of failure for a long time.

An incompetent feudalistic country with an incompetent military ruling it and useless feudal politicians.

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The establishment has always relied on the same “solution” for every national crisis: political engineering.
Not reform, not development, not institution‑building, just manipulating politics to stay relevant and convince Pakistanis that they alone are the country’s savior.

No structural reforms.
No long‑term planning.
No national development vision.

Instead, they took 20–30% cuts on major projects, ran a massive shadow economy, and hollowed out Pakistan’s industrial base. Agriculture collapsed under their watch. Industries were suffocated. Investment dried up.

They protected corrupt politicians, enabled money laundering, and looked the other way as billions left the country. They tolerated and at times empowered, networks involved in smuggling, drugs, and extremist groups, all because these tools helped maintain their influence.

This wasn’t mismanagement.
This was a system built to extract, not build.
A system designed to keep Pakistan weak enough to control, but alive enough to use.

 

[Cipher212]

Sahi baat ki hay iss ne. Some people complaining he's Indian descent but whatever, he's Chinese descent too so it cancels out.

The way some of you are focusing on this rather than what he's saying just shows the mental rot of Pakistan as a whole. It's always some foreign/unseen hands fault. It's never your own damn fault. Weird belief in everyone being out to get Pakistan or something. Like they need to do that in the first place, apun hi kaafi hay.


One of the best points he raised is how this recent diplomatic fame Pakistan is getting gives no benefit to awaam. Absolutely right. What difference does it make if we had a few handshakes with the Americans if we can't even secure permission to pipe in Iranian gas and oil overland?

 

[Goenitz]

However, while everyone agrees that mismanagement has occurred- no one wants to truly fix it because truly fixing it requires effort not just from people in power but also people on the ground.

which economic model can sustain that and for how long? The centre has to ask provinces for funds this time.
Can't economic constraints make them realise that they shouldn't rule over less and less?
Won't they like ruling over dubai/isloo like set-up more than Balochistan (at current situation)? If every corner is hostile or unwelcoming at least, isolating in DHAs is not called living.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Listen to this short clip, he has direct experience with Pakistan during his service. He did a full panel with Pakistani journalists.

He says Pakistan has been mismanaged poorly from the beginning, you can't blame others for your issues.

He says it's a feudalistic society and all politicians regardless of parties are useless. He says the military is part of the problem for upholding this status quo, but also holds the country together.

He even says Pakistan has been on the brink of failure for a long time.

An incompetent feudalistic country with an incompetent military ruling it and useless feudal politicians.

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People need to understand what feudalism actually mean. He is 100% wrong. Going by this his country India too is feudal society. Balochistan have vast tract of land under single families but these are barren waste land. 97% of farmers own less then 12 acres of agricultural land as per 2024-25 census.

Establishment/army is made of middle class origin.

The feudal elite which came to form for being tattus of British Raj in Balochistan, KPK, Sindh and Punjab have seen their influence decline overtime. Now anyone with money is considered "feudal elite".

So this alone make his whole argument worthless.

 

[PakistanLVR]

Growing up it was the 22 families that run Pakistan. If it wasn’t for dealing with the vermin subhumans to our east and west, the military has to be tamed at some point. They are enablers of all this. It’s quite a shame Pakistan can’t get its act together. So much potential there. They didn’t even try to bring up the bare bone IQ level of the country like Sri Lanka did with mass education programs.

 

[Goenitz]

People need to understand what feudalism actually mean. He is 100% wrong. Going by this his country India too is feudal society. Balochistan have vast tract of land under single families but these are barren waste land. 97% of farmers own less then 12 acres of agricultural land as per 2024-25 census.

Establishment/army is made of middle class origin.

The feudal elite which came to form for being tattus of British Raj in Balochistan, KPK, Sindh and Punjab have seen their influence decline overtime. Now anyone with money is considered "feudal elite".

So this alone make his whole argument worthless.

bro.. watch this

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Feudalism is not just owing the land. It is essentially owning or controlling resources (humans too) by manipulation (of law or surroundings).
The old feudal elite has turned into businessmen, factory owners, politicians, bureaucrats, etc.
The problem is they carry the feudalistic thought process wherever they go. They pity the poor and worship power.
Just look at how Mushi dealt with the public (A dehli born middle class person, Karachi resident) vs Bajwa and Asim (from a Punjab feudalistic culture).