JF-17 - Updates, News & Discussion

[Musings]

Lets discuss the topic and not individuals please..........

 

[MastanKhan]

I remember the late Khafee suggesting and even confirming a list of fighter aircrafts that Pakistan had purchased but not a single one materialised. He had a huge following on this forum.

@MastanKhan , didn't you once start a thread on the old Defence.pk forum arguing why Pakistan will eventually acquire F-35 from the US?

Hi,

I very much doubt if I ever mentuioned pak getting the F35's---. That was never possible---. Pakistan couldn't get the F16's---getting F35 was impossible.

As for a Khafee mentioning certain aircraft coming---in weapons purchase few things happen---. Deals are made---deals get cancelled---deals get sabotaged---case in point the attack helicopter deal with USA---F16 deal with USA.

Info is release about deals being made to confuse the enemy---.

The enemy learns of the deal---the deal is sabotaged---.

One fact is clear---pakistan tried to get aircraft from sweden---france---usa---possibly from ital / uk consortium---but none materiazed either by the workings of our opponeng---sudden lack of funding---or it was purely deception.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir- you are well respected and I am a calm reader since approximately 10 years of your posts in this forum - I wish to see you continued well respected- is sabar and peace approaching not the supreme order despite taking the fighting to personal heights. Regards

Hi,

Age takes that 'SABAR' away---. When you see life slipping out of your hands---your way of thinking changes---.

Life gets a different meaning---time is of certain essense---. Every single moment is enjoyed with a passion---.

Live by the sword---die by the sword---. A tiger does not change its stripes just because it has grown old.

 

[MastanKhan]

It was a dis-info profile spreading dis-info on purpose and when the claims didn't materialise, another claim was made so user can disappear from internet.

Sir,

In my time on the forum---I have done my best to sabotage certain information---.

I have stated it many a times---it is a pakistan defence forum---it not a TRUTH forum---.

Information will be manipulated to benefit pakistan if it can.

 

[MirageV3ff]

JF-17 undergoing static airframe structural tests at AVIC during development phase of the Joint Fighter programme

 

[hasssanali8998]

im

View attachment 204327View attachment 204328View attachment 204329View attachment 204330View attachment 204331
JF-17 undergoing static airframe structural tests at AVIC during development phase of the Joint Fighter programme

imagine if they had kept their end of the deal and inducted them too.

 

[krash]

I'm not 100% sure but almost 110% sure this is from DCS.

The arming pins give a little hope.

 

[MastanKhan]

im

imagine if they had kept their end of the deal and inducted them too.

Hi,

With changing threats---their needs changed as well. What seem'd neccessary in 2003---changed by 2008---.

The change and development in the J10's showed the chinese that it would of the minimum capability aircraft in service---.

The Paf could have done the same---left the JF17 and joined the J10---but then they would miss out on the ground strike capabilities of the JF17's---.

 

[SBD-3]

Na, In late 80s to mid 90s IRST has a range of at least 80 km on upgradation of Su-27 family of jets today's IRST has a range well beyond 100 km

An IRST's detection performance and effective range can vary considerably depending on atmospheric conditions, particularly ambient temperature, humidity, and altitude. In the hotter operating environments of the Indian subcontinent, an IRST may not achieve the same detection ranges or consistency that it can in the cooler climates of Europe, where many of these systems were originally evaluated.

I'd be particularly interested in hearing from the Qataris and Saudis about their operational experience with the PIRATE IRST, especially how it performs in the Gulf's high-temperature environment and whether the real-world detection ranges differ significantly from those reported under European test conditions.

 

[SBD-3]

im

imagine if they had kept their end of the deal and inducted them too.

I think there's a silver lining to how the JF-17 program evolved.

The J-10 was China's first truly indigenous modern fighter program, and it carried enormous symbolic and strategic importance for Beijing. The maiden flight was attended by China's senior military leadership, reflecting the prestige attached to the project. It was natural for the PLAAF to prioritize the J-10 as its next-generation fighter, first as its premier platform and eventually as one of the backbone aircraft of the force.

Ironically, that shift may have benefited the JF-17 program in the long run.

Had the PAF also decided to walk away after the PLAAF reduced its interest, the JF-17 could very well have been shelved. Instead, the PAF doubled down on the project, assumed ownership of its future, and continued investing in its development. That decision proved pivotal. Programs like the Tejas illustrate just how difficult it is to sustain and mature a domestic fighter without a committed lead customer. The PAF became that anchor customer for the JF-17.

More importantly, the JF-17 gave Pakistan something it had never possessed before: genuine experience in developing, integrating, testing, certifying, and continuously upgrading a modern combat aircraft. The value of that institutional knowledge arguably exceeds the aircraft itself. It laid the foundation for Pakistan's aerospace ecosystem and significantly expanded the capabilities of both the PAF and PAC.

The PLAAF's reduced involvement also gave the PAF far greater freedom to shape the aircraft around its own operational doctrine. Had the PLAAF procured the fighter in large numbers, its requirements would likely have dominated the development roadmap, leaving less room for Pakistan-specific modifications and priorities.

History supports this point. The PAF has rarely operated Chinese aircraft in exactly the same configuration as the PLAAF. From the J-6 and A-5 to the J-7 and now the J-10CE, Pakistan has consistently sought customized variants tailored to its own operational requirements. That preference for customization has been a defining feature of PAF procurement philosophy for decades.

The JF-17 was the first platform where Pakistan could influence that process from the outset rather than merely requesting modifications after the fact. Many of the program's successes stem from that flexibility. The development of the JF-17B as an operational conversion and lead-in fighter, instead of purchasing an advanced trainer off the shelf, is one example. Even more significant was the integration of a largely indigenous weapons ecosystem, including locally developed precision-guided munitions, stand-off weapons, avionics, and electronic warfare systems, which would have been considerably more difficult had Pakistan been operating a platform whose evolution was primarily dictated by another air force.

Beyond the aircraft itself, the program strengthened Pakistan's defense-industrial base. It expanded domestic expertise in systems integration, software development, flight testing, structural modifications, maintenance, and production engineering. Those are strategic capabilities that continue to pay dividends today and will influence future indigenous aerospace programs.

Of course, there were trade-offs. Greater PLAAF participation would almost certainly have lowered unit costs through larger production runs and generated additional economies of scale. Pakistan also would have benefited from a larger shared logistics and upgrade ecosystem.

However, the increased autonomy that came from being the principal stakeholder arguably outweighed those advantages. The PAF was able to shape the aircraft according to its own doctrine, integrate the weapons and sensors it wanted, and develop an aerospace capability that would have been difficult to achieve as merely another export customer.

In hindsight, the PAF took a calculated gamble by staying committed to the JF-17. That gamble has paid dividends far beyond acquiring an affordable fighter, it helped create the technological, industrial, and institutional foundation that Pakistan's combat aviation capability now rests upon.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Hi,

With changing threats---their needs changed as well. What seem'd neccessary in 2003---changed by 2008---.

The change and development in the J10's showed the chinese that it would of the minimum capability aircraft in service---.

The Paf could have done the same---left the JF17 and joined the J10---but then they would miss out on the ground strike capabilities of the JF17's---.

They needed both at the same time, the JF-17 Thunder as well as the J-10Cs, however, they could only afford one joint program at the time.

So they chose the stop gap approach which involved inducting new F-16s as well as modernising their existing F-16s, along with keeping the Mirages alive for as long as possible.

Luckily for Pakistan, the Americans dangled their carrot, "India will be the next super power by 2020" to the extent that the Indians were daft enough to forget modernising their own air force, and instead concentrated on modernising their navy so they could align themselves with the Americans, the Japanese and rye Australians.

That just triggered China to side with Pakistan in way that it totally undermined India.

Come 2025, India tastes a dose of reality. Come 2026, US removes "Indo" from it's US Pacific Command but still expects Confused India to keep itself aligned with the US.