Turkish Air Force | News & Discussions

[BonPlan]

A question : If Turkey can purchase F35 in a very near future, what about the EF2000 deal? Is it formally inked so far?

 

[BonPlan]

Greece and Israel have nothing to say

If Turkiye completely removes the S-400s from its soil, it will legally dismantle the core justification for American sanctions

and Turkiye could legally demand the delivery of the 6 F-35s it already paid for before being removed from the program

Turkiye is a NATO member. Even Saudi Arabia is acquiring F-35s


btw where is @Foinikas ?

If I was Putin, I won't give you my approval to sell S400.... (to avoid F35 in my south).

 

[xbat]

Hey bon! i think you cant read the situation correctly, s400 or f35 are not important for Turkey anymore.

Turkish F35 is also a problem for USA. if they cant solve it, they will face its concequences, basically Turkey doesnt need it anymore. We paid 1,5 bn USD they produced only 6 aircraft. We want our money back or the fighters. 6 fighters doesnt worth 1,5 bn. they will have to return our money back. means loosing a costomer.

Soon our fighters will be ready, Turkey already secures contracs for its allies. Italy(KE), Indonesia(KAAN) and many countries in talks.

turkey opens its airspace for USAF, contribute NATO mission, has accomodate ANY TP2 radar, has some secret US assets etc. it is a very vital ally for USA, i hope you got it?

 

[MMM-E]

If I was Putin, I won't give you my approval to sell S400.... (to avoid F35 in my south).

better worry about Türkiye's immense technological advantage coming into the game


Why is SIPER more dangerous than S400 to intercept RAFALE over the Aegean ?

modern air warfare is no longer "Fighter Jet against Fighter Jet," but "systems against systems."


... Detection ...
A Greek RAFALE can utilize the "terrain masking" technique, flying at ultra-low altitudes behind large islands to hide from land-based Turkish early warning Radars

But , TURAF has 4 Boeing E-7T AEWC to detect the RAFALE from 350 km away

Even if RAFALE hides behind the islands, the E-7T being observing from above, completely eliminates the "radar blind spots" (terrain masking) behind the islands


on the other hand , S400 can not use NATO's link-16 System for network centric warfare

S400's radars located on the Anatolian coast can not easily track low-flying Jets at maximum range

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The Weapon Engagement

SCALP-EG's threat to SİPER Radars : SPECTRA can jam enemy Radars

but , SİPER-2 can lock onto its target using Link-16 data from the E-7T without ever activating its own search radar ( without revealing its position and without being detected by the Rafale's SPECTRA system)

The SİPER-2 air defense Missile is launched, its course is updated (mid-course correction) with data from the E-7T while in flight and in the final stage, it activates its active radar seeker head to hit the RAFALE

Range of 150+ km ... and ... speed of mach 4+


The combat scenario in the Aegean
The activation of the E-7T and the Link-16/JREAP-C network creates a huge multiplier in favor of Turkiye in the tactical balance. While the Greek RAFALE pilot thinks he is safe hiding behind the islands, the E-7T overhead spots him, passes the data to SİPER via Link-16, and SİPER silently fires the missile

The RAFALE can only detect the threat when the SİPER missile activates its radar in the terminal phase and locks onto it (in the last few seconds)

And GAME OVER !


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Unless the SİPER battery activates its own search and fire control Radars (remaining in complete electromagnetic silence, EMCON mode), the advanced SPECTRA electronic warfare system on the Greek RAFALE Fighter Jet can not detect the location of the SİPER battery


Türkiye's immense technological advantage coming into the game

Stand-off jamming determines the fate of air warfare.
When the ground-based KORAL-200 Radar EW System and the airborne ASOJ-23A stand off jammer Aircraft operate in an integrated manner

The Aegean skies are so overwhelmed with electromagnetic noise and spurious target signals (using Digital Radio Frequency Memory - DRFM technology) that SPECTRA becomes unable to distinguish the real E-7T signal from the spurious signals

Only Turkiye in the region



The AESA radar in the RAFALE is also blinded by this intense jamming. Instead of seeing the target on the screen, the radar is completely covered by interference. Because the radar is blinded, even if the RAFALE fires the METEOR missile, it cannot transmit the target coordinate data (the midpath correction link) that the Missile needs in the first phase.

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KIZILELMA's entry into the game and the Low RCS (Ghost) Advantage

The RAFALE's delta wings-canards, and most importantly, the external munitions (METEOR, SCALP, etc.) and fuel tanks carried under its wings make it appear quite large on Radar ( 1-2 m² RCS).

In contrast, the KIZILELMA, thanks to its internal weapon bays and special fuselage geometry, has a truly "low observable" profile. Its radar signature is many times smaller than that of the RAFALE ( 0.3 m² RCS vs 1-2 m² RCS )



BVR (Beyond Visual Range) Advantage
In an air combat, the first to spot and fire wins. While the RAFALE's radar is under intense Turkish jamming (KORAL-200 and ASOJ-23A) and due to the KIZILELMA's low radar cross-section, it can only detect it at a very close distance of 40-50 km.

On the other hand, the KIZILELMA, using the Link-16 system from the E-7T behind it, obtains the RAFALE's precise position and, with its domestically produced AESA radar (MURAD), locks onto the RAFALE from a distance of 150 km

KIZILELMA to carry 185+ km GOKBORA ramjet powered air to air Missiles in internal weapon bays to hit RAFALE in BVR combat


Strategic Outcome: This fully integrated scenario we have presented is the clearest evidence that modern warfare is no longer "Fighter Jet against Fighter Jet," but "system against systems."

When Turkiye combines its E-7T (Eye), KORAL/HAVA SOJ (Shield/Blinding), SIPER-2 (Long-Range Fist), and KIZILELMA (Ghost Hunter) elements with Link-16 and JREAP-C as a single brain, Greece's RAFALE no matter how technologically advanced, become isolated and prey.


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Also , TURAF gets advanced Fighter Jets until 2030

-- 200 OZGUR-2 modernized F-16s with MURAD-100A AESA Radar and 185-200 km GOKBORA-GOKHAN ramjet powered air to air Missiles

-- 29 F-16 Block50+ with 160 km AIM-120C8 air to air Missile

-- 20 Eurofighter T-4 with METEOR air to air Missile
maybe also 12 Eurofighter T3A from Qatar

-- 20 KAAN with MURAD-600A and 200 km GOKHAN ramjet powered air to air Missile

It is highly likely that the F-35A will also come.

 

[MMM-E]

A question : If Turkey can purchase F35 in a very near future, what about the EF2000 deal? Is it formally inked so far?

Real question : If Turkiye can purchase F-35 in a very near future, what about the 40 F-16V deal ?

The Eurofighter deal has been officially signed, and even if Turkiye acquires F-35s, it will not cancel its Eurofighter purchase.

 

[MMM-E]

Aselsan ALP-200A airborne early warning Radar System



USA : E-7 Wedgetail
Sweden : GlobalEye
Turkiye : ALP-200A
Russia : A-50
China : KJ-2000
Isreal : CAEW


Operational range predictions max overall search Range

It is expected to have a detection horizon of between 400+ km and 550+ km.
This range varies depending on the Aircraft's cruising altitude ( 30,000 - 40,000 feet) and the size of the target set.

Fighter Aircraft-Sized Targets ( Rafale - 1-2 m² RCS): It has the power capacity to easily track a standard fighter aircraft flying at high altitude from very long distances such as 350 km - 400 km.

Cruise Missiles and UAVs (Low RCS): Thanks to digital beam steering and advanced signal processing algorithms, ALP 200-A is designed to be able to detect even cruise missiles (SCALP, etc.) or low-flying drones that leave very small radar signatures in the 180 - 250 km range

IFF (Friend-or-Foe) Range: Thanks to integrated secondary radar systems, it can identify all airborne targets at a distance of 550+ km.


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GaN (Gallium Nitride) Technology: Compared to older generation semiconductors in existing E-7T Radar, the GaN-based AESA architecture offers significantly higher output power, thermal efficiency, and signal quality. This maximizes the radar's resistance to electronic jamming.

High Target Tracking Capability: Thanks to the architectural advantages of the ALP radar family, it can track more than 1000 targets in the airspace simultaneously, continuously updating their position/velocity within milliseconds.

Steel Dome and Network Integration: ALP 200-A is optimized with fully domestically developed software to transmit all this collected data directly to the SİPER-2 or HİSAR-O batteries on the ground via Link-16 and JREAP-C with much higher data rates and less latency.



Official source

https://www.aselsan.com/en/haberler/havadan-ihbar-kontrol-ucaklarina-aselsan-imzasi

 

[hodor]

If I was Putin, I won't give you my approval to sell S400.... (to avoid F35 in my south).

The F-35 has no importance for Turkey. We are buying the F-35 because we want to reduce the pressure on the Kaan. Everyone is talking about the F-35, saying, 'If the Turks trusted the Kaan, they wouldn't buy the F-35.' That is what matters to us. Since the engine issue is also resolved, we can easily produce the Kaan, which will be a stealth version of the F-15

 

[Corax]

There's too many types IMO. The Typhoon deal is really bizarre, adding a new type, which requires new weapons, supply chains, training, doctrine etc. Should have simply scaled up the Viper fleet with new airframes and the Ozgur upgrade. Although I realise there have been political issues between the US and Turkey that may have led to the Typhoon buy, but still, seems like a waste of resources.

 

[Corax]

The problem is that Turkieye needs both the Typhoon and F-35A's now.. Turkieye has a capability gap right now with the combination of Greece and Israel that it must address and which it is with these two purchases. You can't rely on possible future delivery of platforms to address immediate "now" security issues.

Hopefully Kaan is successful, but there significant project risk with it, even though the first batch of engines have been secured.

What does the Typhoon bring that Turkey doesn't already have? I can understand the imminent need for the F35, but the Typhoon? Can't see it offering anything above and beyond the Viper fleet.

 

[Ali_Baba]

The problem is that Turkieye needs both the Typhoon and F-35A's now.. Turkieye has a capability gap right now with the combination of Greece and Israel that it must address and which it is with these two purchases. You can't rely on possible future delivery of platforms to address immediate "now" security issues.

Hopefully Kaan is successful, but there significant project risk with it, even though the first batch of engines have been secured.

 

[Ali_Baba]

What does the Typhoon bring that Turkey doesn't already have? I can understand the imminent need for the F35, but the Typhoon? Can't see it offering anything above and beyond the Viper fleet.

I see it as a quick infusion of new airframes to shore up an aging fleet, combined with it being a hedge against future F-35s disruptions and possible future KAAN delays.

Capability wise, it adds little except for the Meteor. To me, I think I see it as a hedge, as the UK is less likely to delay deliveries than the USA.

 

[Yasser76]

What does the Typhoon bring that Turkey doesn't already have? I can understand the imminent need for the F35, but the Typhoon? Can't see it offering anything above and beyond the Viper fleet.

Think they panicked a bit, as KAAN will take time and F-16V and F-35 were both looking unsure they went for something that gives them a long punch quickly, but yeay, long run unsure how this integrates an all F-16V/KAAN/F-35 fleet is perfect. Gives you stealth and numbers

 

[MMM-E]

What does the Typhoon bring that Turkey doesn't already have?

Dogfight and BVR combat

Eurofighter is better than F-16 in dogfight
also METEOR Missile+advanced AESA Radar+EW suite combined

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Furthermore, dependence on a single country poses a significant risk.

If the US doesn't provide F-16Vs / F-35s and imposes an embargo, we can supplement our fleet with Eurofighters from the UK

Greece
American F-16 - F-35
French RAFALE

Egypt
American F-16
French RAFALE
Russian MIG-29M2

S.Arabia
American F-15
European Typhoon

Qatar
American F-15
French RAFALE
European Typhoon

Turkiye
only American F-16s ... maybe also F-35A

also , others on the way
European Typhoon
Turkish KAAN

 

[BonPlan]

better worry about Türkiye's immense technological advantage coming into the game

You make my day.
immense advantage..... LOL

Wake me up when your jet fighter engine will be ready, circa 2045....

 

[BonPlan]

The F-35 has no importance for Turkey. We are buying the F-35 because we want to reduce the pressure on the Kaan. Everyone is talking about the F-35, saying, 'If the Turks trusted the Kaan, they wouldn't buy the F-35.' That is what matters to us. Since the engine issue is also resolved, we can easily produce the Kaan, which will be a stealth version of the F-15

The engine issue is not solved : you are in the US hands.
If Trump can cut the tie with F35 yesterday, any future Potus can cut the F110 one.
And forget export.