China backed cooper mine threatens Pakistan shutdown over security risk

[Pakistan First]

Start hitting Afghanistan

The Pakistani state is so reactive, FC and police running around

Belligerent states don't wait around, for any act of terrorism you should be striking vital targets across Afghanistan

You should be hitting Baloch villages and areas in the Baloch part of Afghanistan

You should be making it costly for the enemies of Pakistan and arresting anyone making sedition statements




Fight,,,

But how its going to solve Baluchistan problem? Baluchistan issue predates the wave of afghan related terrorism post 9/11 or WOT.

 

[Pakistan First]

Our security failures is only because of two reasons:

1- Incompetent Intelligence agency
2- Political Chaos / Political suppression / Locals unhappy with military's policies.

Both of above points are related with Generals poking into political stuff. A security state / military state can NEVER be successful. Its IMPOSSIBLE. No country in G20 is a hybrid state where military controls everything. Whenever military generals take power only chaos follows. Present and live examples are in front of us like Myanmar where a power greedy general took power and brought civil war into his country. Sudan where army chief throws democractic govt and brought entire nation to civil war. Pakistan and Egypt are still surviving but cost of living dramatically increased in both countries.

We tried military solutions for 70 years. If we have to succeed we have to ditch this military state mechanism. It has failed terribly. For every solution security situation the solution lies in 3 fronts (intelligence + military + political). We only use military and thus why we are failure. Military's job is not interfering with political solutions. Intelligence job is most complex, it has to infiltrate into enemy + it has to keep close coordination with military + it has to keep political entities into loop. Whenever I say political people, I don't mean puppets or military installed people. I mean the real representatives of people. In our country, military throws the real reps in prison and then we think that we will solve our problems lol. How on earth we can solve our problems when masses lose confidence in military and see their real representatives being treated like enemies. Also whenever I say "intellgence agency". It should be a competent intelligence agency that ideally works under a civil leadership and is comprised of civil+military personal and has no political affiliation or being used against political parties. It should be focused with all its energies towards real enemies the terror networks + foreign agencies supporting terror in Pakistan.

I don't understand we still have not learned any lesson yet. For 70+ years. Still talking about waging more wars without ability to contain existing problems. We don't have any money for larger wars like to go into afghanistan at scale. Its complete loss of precious ammo and money to waste on afghanistan when we have to focus on primary front india. We have destroyed ourselves a lot in last 5 years. From unbearable cost of living, total political, judicial, media destruction, total military kingdom with impunity and above law, a puppet show is not going to solve any problem whether at KP or at baluchistan. Military needs to behave under the people of Pakistan. All boot worshippers should calm down now. Its too easy to put posts to wage war here and there and kill this and that. Its not practical. Had that be so easy then we would have done so already. It has not worked for 70 years and it will not work ever.

 

[Master Chief]

You should know that UK has friendlier defamation laws than the US.

Anyway, the point is that while the FT may well have an agenda that is reflected in their editorial opinion, it is inconceivable that they will cook up the existence of a letter that is fake or does not exist. No one from the government has challenged the factual aspects of their story. And everyone knows what the security situation in Balochistan is like. Even Barrick has publicly disclosed that their Reko Diq project is on hold for a security review. So, what specifically is fake or even implausible about what the FT has reported ?

You didn't answer my question. Whether it is fake or true is irrelevant. The narrative cannot be retrospectively modified by legal action. Contrarily, the narrative should be authored by friendly parties in the first place. Asking for Pakistan to "sue newspapers" is a waste of time.

 

[Owaiz]

You didn't answer my question. Whether it is fake or true is irrelevant. The narrative cannot be retrospectively modified by legal action. Contrarily, the narrative should be authored by friendly parties in the first place. Asking for Pakistan to "sue newspapers" is a waste of time.

I didn't ask Pakistan to "sue newspapers ". I simply asked the poster who claimed this news was fake why the government responed to the allegedly fake news about a security situation at Saindak by increasing security instead of taking on the alleged perpetrators of the fake news in the UK like they have sued , through their agents , Pakistani dissidents like Adil Raja. It was a rhetorical question because we all know the FT has published a well sourced story whose authenticity no one has disputed.

 

[hussain0216]

But how its going to solve Baluchistan problem? Baluchistan issue predates the wave of afghan related terrorism post 9/11 or WOT.

Where do you think BLA is based a d training???

Its in the Baloch areas of Afghanistan

They are the same, at the moment we kill BLA, they get declared martyrs and then another bunch of scum are trained for the next attack

We go around in circles

Our people are too stupid to understand national interest and are more content with declaring the terrorists as naraz brothers



All you have to do is give the terrorists CONSEQUENCES

If for every BLA attack, you load up a few JF17s with a bunch of takbirs and target the villages and towns in Afghanistan where these guys train and live

Wipe them out, hit every building, every market, every school, hospital warehouse

Then wait, if they commit more terrorism, do the same thing to the next town or village


They will cry and wail, they will make propaganda about civilian deaths


Just stick to the narrative of targeting terrorists and their infrastructure



You have now given BLA Baloch and Afghans CONSEQUENCES for their terrorism

If they want to keep attacking us, that's fine as long as they are willing to watch their villages and towns be destroyed one by one



our failure to give consequences, or play by some rule based system that doesn't exist
Or try to be better Muslims when the Afghans or Baloch hate you anyway is STUPID


Wage war on your enemy, persecute them, destroy them and their kin, make their lives unbearable in a rough hot climate
Hit their water and food supplies

Make not deadly to be a enemy of Pakistan and we will crush them

 

[hussain0216]

Hit the green and grey areas,

Hit the towns and villages, markets, buildings, anything and everything until they understand war is worse for them then it is for us




Our own pussey behaviour, has led us to this and only cold hard vengeful brutality will lead us out against a enemy who wants our sovereign territory

 

[Goenitz]

Since I am not a Pakistani, I do not know the locals well, but what you mentioned about chaos, violence, killings, and a lack of security.
So, let's gradually break down the issue: what are the violent actions of the locals, and what are their demands? There is always a fundamental cause behind each problem.
Gang culture? Local government corruption? Unequal distribution? Psychological grievances? Is opposing the government a cool thing to do?
Or religious beliefs?

When you mention ethnic culture, do you mean gang culture? Like fighting over territory?

He always seems a little on the edge and whitewashes an entire population with one label. It can be racism or anything, but I bet he cannot provide a rational behind it.

 

[hussain0216]

Since I am not a Pakistani, I do not know the locals well, but what you mentioned about chaos, violence, killings, and a lack of security.
So, let's gradually break down the issue: what are the violent actions of the locals, and what are their demands? There is always a fundamental cause behind each problem.
Gang culture? Local government corruption? Unequal distribution? Psychological grievances? Is opposing the government a cool thing to do?
Or religious beliefs?

When you mention ethnic culture, do you mean gang culture? Like fighting over territory?

It's tribal culture that historically responds to everything with violence

Numerous times, people, groups, areas have some sort of grievance

And that's fair, countries/governments should address fair grievances

Legitimate protest is also fair way to air views etc, ask for change



Their is a red line however, and that is when groups turn seditious, violent, barbaric and racist

And that's what's happened here,
Unacceptable demands of sovereign Pakistani territory are made

Terrorism against the state and it's forces

Absolute savagery towards travellers, teachers, etc




Once red lines are passed, you don't even want to make a deal with these people or welcome them as citizens, because they have become open enemies of your country


CPEC for example (which is ongoing) is an attempt to bring investment and change into the area
But you can't just hire uneducated or violent locals for every role


Their is a process of change where one project leads to another and investment slowly grows




At the moment in Pakistan most taxes come from Karachi and Punjab, but everyone else makes a claim on them because they think they have some sort of RIGHT to tax payers money, or the government is responsible for them whilst they make no contribution

 

[Master Chief]

I didn't ask Pakistan to "sue newspapers ". I simply asked the poster who claimed this news was fake why the government responed to the allegedly fake news about a security situation at Saindak by increasing security instead of taking on the alleged perpetrators of the fake news in the UK like they have sued , through their agents , Pakistani dissidents like Adil Raja. It was a rhetorical question because we all know the FT has published a well sourced story whose authenticity no one has disputed.

"why did the government announce it is increasing security instead of suing the Financial Times in London ? "

You have implied that Pakistan should sue the FT, whether intended rhetorically or not. I have given you a straightforward answer as to why it is a waste of resources to attempt litigation against a foreign newspaper and resources are better spent on controlling the primary narrative to begin with.

Let me add that Adil Raja is easier to sue, hence the reason litigation efforts remain a selective and targeted strategy. What don't you understand about this simple response to your question, "rhetorical" or not?

I question the authenticity of the FT report, indeed I am fully cognisant of the agenda being served through the deployment of partial truths, incomplete truths, and outright falsehoods.

You habitually cite references that are well know for their Delhi-centric amplifications, e.g. FT and AJ. It really isn't difficult to figure this one out.

Let me also add that propaganda serves an additional purpose beyond that of narrative control - that of promoting actual real-world action by involved parties. It is part and parcel of information warfare and there are countless examples in history. This is the very origin of the term "self fulfilling prophecy", should you be interested to know of such matters. So for Pakistan to respond to globalised propaganda of "attacks on mines saaar!!" with enhanced security is not as dumb or cynical a move as you think it is. You are citing the increased security as some sort of "circumstantial evidence" of increased attacks, which is a bit of a schoolboy error on your part.

 

[Owaiz]

"why did the government announce it is increasing security instead of suing the Financial Times in London ? "

You have implied that Pakistan should sue the FT, whether intended rhetorically or not. I have given you a straightforward answer as to why it is a waste of resources to attempt litigation against a foreign newspaper and resources are better spent on controlling the primary narrative to begin with.

Let me add that Adil Raja is easier to sue, hence the reason litigation efforts remain a selective and targeted strategy. What don't you understand about this simple response to your question, "rhetorical" or not?

I question the authenticity of the FT report, indeed I am fully cognisant of the agenda being served through the deployment of partial truths, incomplete truths, and outright falsehoods.

You habitually cite references that are well know for their Delhi-centric amplifications, e.g. FT and AJ. It really isn't difficult to figure this one out.

Let me also add that propaganda serves an additional purpose beyond that of narrative control - that of promoting actual real-world action by involved parties. It is part and parcel of information warfare and there are countless examples in history. This is the very origin of the term "self fulfilling prophecy", should you be interested to know of such matters. So for Pakistan to respond to globalised propaganda of "attacks on mines saaar!!" with enhanced security is not as dumb or cynical a move as you think it is. You are citing the increased security as some sort of "circumstantial evidence" of increased attacks, which is a bit of a schoolboy error on your part.

Seriously saar, TLDR, but please tell me if any one from the government has disputed that the letter the so-called India aligned FT ( which has published several stories critical of India and which BJP fanboys label as anti-India) referenced in the story is genuine. If not, I don't understand why the askarandus are trying to be more patriotic than their masters.