Su 57 deal on the agenda for Modi Putin Meet

[kmc_chacko]

There are very few things we will be buying from the Russians from now on, and fighter jets is not one of them.

problem is maintaining 45+ sq and without long term Su-30 replacement planning achieving required strength will be difficult.

By 2040 IAF will have to virtually replace its entire present jets. Tejas, Rafael & AMCA might make upto 500+ and still it will short of 200+ jets i.e, Su-30 place will be vacant.

Drones will make up the number but not the balance.

 

[RealNapster]

Mit again this BS… and you should better instantly stop smoking that stuff it is not good to your brain!

400 Su-57 under licence in India until 2035 is so much off like the sun raising in the West!

They dont need any technology transfer for Tejas, still can't make em.

 

[m52k85]

Please sign it quick so our babas can signoff some goodies for PAF.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Gotta love Russia, screwed India over first time on this project and now coming back for a late night booty call again....

Russia is waiting for everything on plate and requesting India to buy it.

BUt India is not ready for it.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Modi should make a deal now for the Su 57. This is the right time. The Russians are very willing. Talking abt tech transder of even the S 500. We should start manufacruring in HAL's Nashik facility immediately. Target abt 400 Su 57 in the next 9 years until AMCA production begins.

I believe India should consider acquiring at least 72 Su-57s, but not simply as an off-the-shelf purchase. India should pursue a highly customised Indian variant, similar in philosophy to the Su-30MKI programme.

When the Su-30MKI was introduced around 2000, it became one of the most capable 4.5-generation fighters because India didn't simply buy a standard Russian aircraft—it incorporated Indian requirements and systems. The problem is that the Su-30MKI fleet subsequently did not receive upgrades at the pace necessary to maintain its technological edge.

The same mistake should not be repeated with the Su-57. If India acquires it, the objective should be an Indianised Su-57 incorporating the best feasible combination of Russian, Indian and selected Western technologies—particularly in avionics, AESA radar, electronic warfare, communications/data links, mission computers and weapons.

Such an aircraft could provide India with a significant fifth-generation capability while AMCA is being developed and inducted. It would also give the IAF valuable operational experience with stealth fighters, advanced sensors, networking and low-observable operations.

The Su-57 should therefore be viewed as a bridge, not a replacement for AMCA. A fleet of around 72 aircraft could provide that bridge while giving India time to develop AMCA properly and, potentially, participate in an international sixth-generation programme in the future.

 

[Ali_Baba]

I believe India should consider acquiring at least 72 Su-57s, but not simply as an off-the-shelf purchase. India should pursue a highly customised Indian variant, similar in philosophy to the Su-30MKI programme.

Right now, India does not really have the time for a "custom" variant to be developed and delivered. India, does not really have time for a TOT project with manufacturing in India given the poor state of the IAF. India needs to buy off the shelf as-is.

Time is not on your side right now.

 

[kambhakt]

problem is maintaining 45+ sq and without long term Su-30 replacement planning achieving required strength will be difficult.

By 2040 IAF will have to virtually replace its entire present jets. Tejas, Rafael & AMCA might make upto 500+ and still it will short of 200+ jets i.e, Su-30 place will be vacant.

Drones will make up the number but not the balance.

The answer for that will not be Russia. Russia was not delivering in time even before the Ukraine war. Now it will be worse.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Right now, India does not really have the time for a "custom" variant to be developed and delivered. India, does not really have time for a TOT project with manufacturing in India given the poor state of the IAF. India needs to buy off the shelf as-is.

Time is not on your side right now.

No, for custom- we can wait 2-3 years testing and than induction from 2028 etc..

Yeah - but now might 12 can directly be imported, and plan to upgrade later...for the time being...

 

[Starlord]

with 270+ Su-30s waiting to be retired, starting between 2040-45, Su 57 is the only option available in the market. IAF can procure it in small batches and test it, upgrade it and build it locally with full ToT just like we done with Su-30s.

I think best approach for IAF will be to get as many Rafale as possible because they are damn good aircraft, and will be relevant even after 2040. With Rafale's in good numbers between IAF & IN, you can upgrade the Su30MKI to super sukhoi, keep 150+ or so even after that 2040 timeline, and add another 50-100 Su57's that will be a good size force consist of modern fighter jets, add in few sqs of Teja bhai here and there for low-mid size fighter and you will have a potent airforce, now I will not say that will be close enough for PLAAF that is now way way gone for IAF to tackle, but for PAF yes that will be a substential threat.

 

[kmc_chacko]

The answer for that will not be Russia. Russia was not delivering in time even before the Ukraine war. Now it will be worse.

My reasoning for buying Su-57 is, preset IAF future plans like below
1. Tejas Mk1 will fill in the place of retired Migs (12 sq) timeline 2027-35
2. Rafale will take-up the rolls & place of Mig-29s & Mirage (8 sq) timeline 2028-40
3. Tejas Mk2 and later will replace Jaguar and will be backbone of IAF (20+ sq) timeline 2029-45
4. AMCA will be in small quantity and replace Tejas-Mk1 & Su-30s (12 sq) timeline 2040-50
above will make upto 38-40 sq but minimal requirement is 42 squadrons

though on paper it looks like IAF will have 40 sq by 2040 but AMCA is just on drawing board and not reality, Tejas Mk2 yet to fly and if everything goes as planned its delivery schedule might starts by 2030-35.

by 2035-40 initially inducted Su-30s will be at the end of its life (i.e., 30+ years of induction) and this leaves out need of 8-10 sq of Fighter Jets. options available Infront of IAF are either buy Su-57s (available) or F-35 (buying will be irresponsible) or order more Rafale but issue is delivery of present order will start only by 2028-30 and scheduled upto 2040-45.

 

[kmc_chacko]

I think best approach for IAF will be to get as many Rafale as possible because they are damn good aircraft, and will be relevant even after 2040. With Rafale's in good numbers between IAF & IN, you can upgrade the Su30MKI to super sukhoi, keep 150+ or so even after that 2040 timeline, and add another 50-100 Su57's that will be a good size force consist of modern fighter jets, add in few sqs of Teja bhai here and there for low-mid size fighter and you will have a potent airforce, now I will not say that will be close enough for PLAAF that is now way way gone for IAF to tackle, but for PAF yes that will be a substential threat.

I don't think IAF need to counter PLAAF piece by piece, as PLAAF has their own problems and priorities so few sq of Jets will keep border at peace mode.

regarding PAF, IAF will have issues, as PAF will prefer to have short time skirmishes rather that longer duration conflicts. because PAF knows longer the duration weaker they will be. So, any future conflicts between PAF vs IAF will be like, who can stretch it.

In India, bureaucracy will not prefer long war as it will hurt economy and they will limit the ambition of Army. Whereas, in Pakistan since Army controls everything they know how much they economy can hold.

So, PAF will try hit and run tactics, whereas IAF will target priority targets, due to this both end will try to keep war at limited time and both can claim victory.

 

[kambhakt]

My reasoning for buying Su-57 is, preset IAF future plans like below
1. Tejas Mk1 will fill in the place of retired Migs (12 sq) timeline 2027-35
2. Rafale will take-up the rolls & place of Mig-29s & Mirage (8 sq) timeline 2028-40
3. Tejas Mk2 and later will replace Jaguar and will be backbone of IAF (20+ sq) timeline 2029-45
4. AMCA will be in small quantity and replace Tejas-Mk1 & Su-30s (12 sq) timeline 2040-50
above will make upto 38-40 sq but minimal requirement is 42 squadrons

though on paper it looks like IAF will have 40 sq by 2040 but AMCA is just on drawing board and not reality, Tejas Mk2 yet to fly and if everything goes as planned its delivery schedule might starts by 2030-35.

by 2035-40 initially inducted Su-30s will be at the end of its life (i.e., 30+ years of induction) and this leaves out need of 8-10 sq of Fighter Jets. options available Infront of IAF are either buy Su-57s (available) or F-35 (buying will be irresponsible) or order more Rafale but issue is delivery of present order will start only by 2028-30 and scheduled upto 2040-45.

If we give a big enough Rafale order, production rate can be increased.

42 squadron was calculated long ago. War fighting has changed since then. Maybe they are no longer needed. Ukraine - Russia has seen very little use of air force. Iran is keeping the USA at bay without an air force, though the cost has been high.

 

[Ali_Baba]

My reasoning for buying Su-57 is, preset IAF future plans like below
1. Tejas Mk1 will fill in the place of retired Migs (12 sq) timeline 2027-35
2. Rafale will take-up the rolls & place of Mig-29s & Mirage (8 sq) timeline 2028-40
3. Tejas Mk2 and later will replace Jaguar and will be backbone of IAF (20+ sq) timeline 2029-45
4. AMCA will be in small quantity and replace Tejas-Mk1 & Su-30s (12 sq) timeline 2040-50
above will make upto 38-40 sq but minimal requirement is 42 squadrons

though on paper it looks like IAF will have 40 sq by 2040 but AMCA is just on drawing board and not reality, Tejas Mk2 yet to fly and if everything goes as planned its delivery schedule might starts by 2030-35.

by 2035-40 initially inducted Su-30s will be at the end of its life (i.e., 30+ years of induction) and this leaves out need of 8-10 sq of Fighter Jets. options available Infront of IAF are either buy Su-57s (available) or F-35 (buying will be irresponsible) or order more Rafale but issue is delivery of present order will start only by 2028-30 and scheduled upto 2040-45.

@Deino , @Yasser76 - please be seated when you read the expectations and timelines on this work of "art ..".

 

[kambhakt]

Yeah, so India pretty much out of the 5th Gen game for next 10 years

Not a big problem. Pakistan is hardly in a position to try to take back Kashmir in the next 10 years.

 

[Starlord]

I don't think IAF need to counter PLAAF piece by piece, as PLAAF has their own problems and priorities so few sq of Jets will keep border at peace mode.

regarding PAF, IAF will have issues, as PAF will prefer to have short time skirmishes rather that longer duration conflicts. because PAF knows longer the duration weaker they will be. So, any future conflicts between PAF vs IAF will be like, who can stretch it.

In India, bureaucracy will not prefer long war as it will hurt economy and they will limit the ambition of Army. Whereas, in Pakistan since Army controls everything they know how much they economy can hold.

So, PAF will try hit and run tactics, whereas IAF will target priority targets, due to this both end will try to keep war at limited time and both can claim victory.

I mean we saw back in 2025 may, that IAF was grounded after 24 hours, as PAF don't need to cross border to hit targets deep inside India, as we have no claims there. With IAF neutralized or even battered that will be a nightmare for your ground troops even in a 48-72 hrs long conflict, And with addition of drones from both side things are now changed, whoever is mass producing and can keep producing it can keep fighting.

In recent years we have seen a significant increase in overall fire power of PA military which means they can easily push this conflict to 12-15 days before things start to stretch thin. And given the destructive nature of warfare in 21st century that 10-15 days are enough to make any one of the country blink or international powers like China or America to step in and call for ceasefire.