Makkah Defence Alliance: Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan, news & updates

[Oscar]

And my argument has nothing to do with both hotel or business.

The argument changes however, when a place of business is marked inside by decree and therefore providing an access control solely by those who can afford. Only the same wealth bracket rubs shoulders and assume being part of the congregation outside. Second, abu lahab exploited pilgrims to Makkah and was direct beneficiary of the existing paradigm so much so that when when Quresh were summoned to receive the call to Islam... he objected, openly and vociferously. Eventhough he was generous previously.

Again - moral vision - poor argument.

The clock tower can(and I have heard so) have gold covered suites with caviar all over... but so long as it is NOT blocking access to the Haram and participation in the congregational rites are not sold by the Clock Tower then your comparison to Abu Lahab is pure rhetorical and conjecture.

Moreover, Abu Lahab was a beneficiary of the broader Quraysh setup which included Abdul Mutallib which means you are equating even those who supported the prophet morally equivalent to him by this narrow definition.
Abu Lahab was heinious first and foremost because of his active rejection of the call to Islam and persecution of muslims. His greed and character otherwise are morally objectionable but not paralells here.

Unless you can PROVE legally that the hotel withholds access to the haram , hajj, tawaf and other activities - you are right ethically from inequalities but baseless because your objection is profit (which is permitted) during pilgrimage.

 

[r3alist]

Per my opinion(I'm not an expert nor associated with armed forces in any way)...
Pakistan should deploy special forces(to invade) and army deployment to hold those two islands that Houthis seized under Mecca defense alliance. KSA and Turkey should back it. It would be a perfect excuse to hold such key strategic islands at such an important route. No one country would be to blame and seen as a hegemon/colonizer to the world(except by Yemen and perhaps Israel which would be clearly unhappy) but to the rest of the world it should be portrayed as "ensuring" security of trade routes and taking a page out of Israeli playbook...the move would be "temporary"(but in reality there would be no plans of returning the islands any time soon).

KSA should bank roll this operation and all sorts of layered air defense, coastal batteries, and long range missiles should be deployed to hold the islands and attack if necessary. Then later at some point the islands should be handed over to KSA(at least in name.. regardless of whose army under Mecca agreement is presently holding the islands) so any pressure by UN or world powers would be for their government to deal with.

It would demonstrate that this Mecca pact holds water...and is honestly doable relatively quick without getting bogged down by some endless war in Yemen or something.

Oscar Panzerkiel
ur feedback would be highly appreciated regarding the above.

Don't think KSA can bank roll the expenses if their oil capacity is out

The houthis and/or Iranians undermined the Makkah pact by killing Saudis economic strength, therefore the pact

The political will makes the suggestion a non starter, and the resource capacity is not there.

It's akin to fighting the Taliban, they have nothing to lose and the other side has it's standard of living at risk

 

[r3alist]

I'm not by any way endorsing what haqiqatju is suggesting or proposing.
My post is entirely on the merits of the tower itself.

Well taste in architecture is kind of missing the trees for the forest

 

[Eşbah]

!

 

[Oscar]

Iran are undermining a sunni bloc, via the houthis. there always was a risk they would get drunk on their hype, suddenly saying we are ok with uae is conceding you are seeking to do away with the Saudis, and undermine the pact quickly .....more than go at entity.

Everyone is imagining 4d chess, some logical path that results in Israel, they will look foolish......Israel has regrouped and gained territory, entity entity entity blaaa, what entity you just made nice with uae.


I don't think the Iranians particularly care for Pakistans equities unless Pakistan is willing to make them

I might be jumping the gun, I might be wrong, it's not looking good, the Iranians will prioritise their own interests and ideologically reverse, and Israel being around lets the revolutionary state Keep an external bogeyman

The Saudis are in a difficult spot all at once, because the Americans have left the Saudis to face off to an Iran that feels powerful ......very suddenly, the Turks no doubt have ambitions, someone calling mbz now, join the Abraham accord's and this problem goes away

What I said earlier - States can compartmentalize.
Iran is compartmentalizing coercion and diplomacy.

It can allow or encourage pressure through the Houthi front while simultaneously reopening a channel with Abu Dhabi which is not about choosing Khaleejis over Saudis but its intent is to further the split between them while still keeping the threshold below a full consolidated Anti-Iran response.

That also doesn't mean the UAE isn't hedging its bets - or that it is trying to test Pakistan beyond its limits because it DOES have interests in keeping Pakistan "neutral".

On the flipside - current cooperation(mediated by CENTCOM) between Saudis and Israelis does not mean MBS is going to Tel Aviv and will take a holiday there.

For Iran, it is a massive balancing act because it cannot boil the water more than it needs to just coerce Riyadh - it cannot choke Red Sea traffic that causes issues for UAE and even Pakistan - otherwise it will force KSA, UAE, US, Turkey, Pakistan and then the zionists into a more pragmatic (if using intermediary in Washington) security coordination against it.

Once again, this is NOT ABOUT PRINCIPLES - it is about what EACH STATE - the singular country geography, its economy, security, ruling ELITE - all see as red lines.

 

[PakFactor]

Laga Rao.....

 

[Oscar]

!

Exactly - and when you question this type of analysis these commentators come up with every other type of whataboutism or plain childish memes.

 

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

Again - moral vision - poor argument.

The clock tower can(and I have heard so) have gold covered suites with caviar all over... but so long as it is NOT blocking access to the Haram and participation in the congregational rites are not sold by the Clock Tower then your comparison to Abu Lahab is pure rhetorical and conjecture.

I didn't want to make this a back and forth... however, a luxury hotel that is considered inside the territory of harem... where rooms are sold at a premium BECAUSE of its proximity is a dividend being accrued by whoever in that chain.

That is not available to those right outside of such boundaries that depend on a ruling to grant or withdraw.
And that by default allows a premium access to those who can afford.

Moreover, Abu Lahab was a beneficiary of the broader Quraysh setup which included Abdul Mutallib which means you are equating even those who supported the prophet morally equivalent to him by this narrow definition.
Abu Lahab was heinious first and foremost because of his active rejection of the call to Islam and persecution of muslims. His greed and character otherwise are morally objectionable but not paralells here.

Abu Lahab's argument was vested in wealth, arrogance and supremacy. He argued that he'd buy his way out of punishment.

Unless you can PROVE legally that the hotel withholds access to the haram , hajj, tawaf and other activities - you are right ethically from inequalities but baseless because your objection is profit (which is permitted) during pilgrimage.

Hotel sells access... that is within the set limit of Harem... by authorities... there is nothing to prove here...
Ones who cannot afford... reside elsewhere.

 

[r3alist]

What I said earlier - States can compartmentalize.
Iran is compartmentalizing coercion and diplomacy.

It can allow or encourage pressure through the Houthi front while simultaneously reopening a channel with Abu Dhabi which is not about choosing Khaleejis over Saudis but its intent is to further the split between them while still keeping the threshold below a full consolidated Anti-Iran response.

That also doesn't mean the UAE isn't hedging its bets - or that it is trying to test Pakistan beyond its limits because it DOES have interests in keeping Pakistan "neutral".

On the flipside - current cooperation(mediated by CENTCOM) between Saudis and Israelis does not mean MBS is going to Tel Aviv and will take a holiday there.

For Iran, it is a massive balancing act because it cannot boil the water more than it needs to just coerce Riyadh - it cannot choke Red Sea traffic that causes issues for UAE and even Pakistan - otherwise it will force KSA, UAE, US, Turkey, Pakistan and then the zionists into a more pragmatic (if using intermediary in Washington) security coordination against it.

Once again, this is NOT ABOUT PRINCIPLES - it is about what EACH STATE - the singular country geography, its economy, security, ruling ELITE - all see as red lines.

That's a carefully nuanced take, I agree

I guess I was emphasising (mocking) the ideological summersaults Iran might be willing to do because too many are imagining a 4d chess scenario with Iran ....with real faith in Iran, maybe that merits a reconsideration in the court of public opinion, because it's always been the most ruthless cynical calculations

Let's not forget, the years of entity bashing from Iran, implying they are simply pursuing a manichean* ideological struggle for justice etc a simple and opportunistic ideological stance they won global support for

Look at the scorecard, Gaza Hezb Syria....all weaker....iran stronger in terms of power and disruption projection, its looking like all for Iran, none for the rest


*Mani of course being a Persian pre islamic worldview. Shia resistance ideology for internal mobilisation, manichean posturing for global opinion, always Persian exceptionalism.... Maybe?

 

[Cookie Monster]

Don't think KSA can bank roll the expenses if their oil capacity is out

The houthis and/or Iranians undermined the Makkah pact by killing Saudis economic strength, therefore the pact

The political will makes the suggestion a non starter, and the resource capacity is not there.

It's akin to fighting the Taliban, they have nothing to lose and the other side has it's standard of living at risk

Destroying a pipeline in the present doesn't make a country lose its wealth built over decades in an instant. Doing nothing about it would be the stupid move..it will not only put KSA at the mercy of its enemies but KSA would also lose the chance to secure a presence/potentially owning those islands.

Multiple countries have setup shop in Djbouti...UAE/Israel are making moves with Somaliland while others are backing Somalia...all with the goal of exerting control in that strategic water way...otherwise none of these countries(Somalia, Somaliland, Djbouti) are of any significance. This chance should be ceased while the world has perceived Houthis as a nuisance threatening/attacking shipping lanes for a while and especially now with strait of Hormuz already being shut off(more or less). There would hardly be any opposition at world stage if those islands were to be seized in the name of securing it.

 

[r3alist]

Destroying a pipeline in the present doesn't make a country lose its wealth built over decades in an instant. Doing nothing about it would be the stupid move..it will not only put KSA at the mercy of its enemies but KSA would also lose the chance to secure a presence/potentially owning those islands.

Multiple countries have setup shop in Djbouti...UAE/Israel are making moves with Somaliland while others are backing Somalia...all with the goal of exerting control in that strategic water way...otherwise none of these countries(Somalia, Somaliland, Djbouti) are of any significance. This chance should be ceased while the world has perceived Houthis as a nuisance threatening/attacking shipping lanes for a while and especially now with strait of Hormuz already being shut off(more or less). There would hardly be any opposition at world stage if those islands were to be seized in the name of securing it.

If you don't have cashflow from oil you don't have wealth, you have a potential fire sale of your assets, for a country like Saudi

 

[Cookie Monster]

If you don't have cashflow from oil you don't have wealth, you have a potential fire sale of your assets, for a country like Saudi

U r telling me that an oil rich country is broke in a week of recent developments?
Be a realist like ur namesake. KSA has enough money to not only bank roll this...but it holds enough clout/credit worthiness that even without money TODAY it can acquire several air defense systems from China on credit alone.

But then again..there's no need of that. Blowing up a pipeline/shutting it off for a week doesn't make a country go broke. A country that does nothing about it and lets losses mount...WILL eventually go broke.