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By the way, why didn’t china speed up procurement of J-10 for PAF last year during the conflict ?
PAF pilot highlights how chinese J10C fighters has edged US F16's
- Thread starter SecularNationalist
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By the way, why didn’t china speed up procurement of J-10 for PAF last year during the conflict ?
Michael
VIP Member
Why doesn’t Rolls-Royce provide me with a luxury sedan?
Why doesn’t Gulfstream Aerospace provide me with a luxury private jet?
Why doesn’t Hermès provide me with a top-tier handbag?
................
Do you know what? Your viewpoint is utterly absurd!
To date, there is no concrete information indicating that the PAF has placed any follow-up orders for the J-10CE with CATIC. ------ All verified information confirms that the PAF ordered only 20 J-10CE fighter jets from CATIC. All of these aircraft have already been delivered. The order is complete!
Your question is utter nonsense!
PAF and its pilots don’t think so.
Thinking from PAFs history, or strategically, I think only F-104s had 1 squadron which was considered enough since it wasnt in MRF role unlike Sabres.
Would it be sensible to induct only 1 J-10 squadron ?
Be dazzled
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
It's true. Unlike the popular belief, PAF is yet to place a follow up order. Ghizou plant can prepare the additional jets within a year keeping their current pace in mind. We heard they would acquire 40, but nothing on that still.
Michael
VIP Member
You haven’t specified your "country of origin," but given your role as a "think tank consultant," I suspect you might be Pakistani.
You cannot mistake your own fantasies, musings, analyses, or strategies for reality. CATIC isn’t going to supply you with equipment just because you want it—in the same way that Rolls-Royce, Gulfstream, or Hermès wouldn’t immediately provide me with their products simply because I "want" them.
You have to take concrete action! For instance, by signing a contract and putting down a deposit... As it stands, the points you’ve raised are nothing more than the musings of a few fans; PAF did not actually take any action.
As for your questioning of whether the PAF’s strategy is sound—that has nothing to do with China, nor with CATIC.
MH.Yang
Trusted Member
Considering the gap in national strength, it is a wise choice for Pakistan not to actively escalate the arms race. Especially Pakistan has gained air superiority.
MH.Yang
Trusted Member
The J-10C is not the lowest level aircraft of PLAAF, it belongs to the same category as the J-16 and J-11BG.
PLAAG has stopped purchasing J-10C because it has shifted from strategic defense to strategic offense. The J-10C, a medium-sized air superiority fighter, has a short range and insufficient payload, which does not meet the requirements of PLAAF. But it is still a 4.5G fighter jet, not the lowest level.
niubi
Registered Member
It is the least capable modern fighter in PLAAF that hasn't been out of production for many, many years like the J-11 for example.
It does not belong in the same category as J-16 even ignoring the single engine vs twin engine. J-11BG may be similar to J-10C in its overall capability because it makes up for slightly more limited older architecture with its higher physical performance.
J-10C stands no chance against J-16. This much is very certain and has been informed by PLAAF on many occasions when they discuss exercises held internally and with other airforces where both fighters are involved. J-10C is always talked about as fighting an impossible uphill battle when facing against J-16. Only once in a while with cunning tactics can J-10C get kills on J-16.
Considering J-10C as same category as J-16 is only true for its generation being 4.5. Comparing their capability is like comparing F-16E/F with F-15EX.
Feroze
Trusted Member
I think after 2030 that benchmark year we should go for J-35 fighter jets.
We should order more J-10Cs though.
Ali_Baba
VIP Member
While the F16V standard maybe still in progress, given that the USAF is looking to purchase new build F16s again(as it has done with F15EXs ), the development work will complete and be available as a full upgrade option.
U.S. Air Force Considering Once Again Buying New F-16s
The U.S. Air Force is considering the acquisition of newly built F-16s, possibly an upgraded F-16G variant, to address the aging of the fleet.The U.S. Air
theaviationist.com
The J10CE is in real terms more of a dead end interms of upgrades than the F16 as China will not fund any new upgrades as it focus shifts to the stealth series. I would argue that the PAF put a freeze on further J10CEs as they will become obsolete far quicker than the F16 series, and move to acquire early J-35AE's for that very reason of long live upgrades. Maybe the delay in follow up orders is for the same thinking by the PAF? Given that the J10CE is a standard version, PAF could resell them to other J10CE operators when the J-35AE's turn up ?
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White Privilege
Registered Member
Perhaps the AMRAAM is not as 'silent' as PL-15E, Viper also has a 'more noisy' PD radar.We have heard, in 2019, then Sqd. Ldr Hasan Siddiqui guided his AMRAAM , in semi-active mode , for very long to ensure it connected with the desperately maneuvering Flanker, all this creates 'noise'. Perhaps PAF wanted to keep the individual aircraft radar emissions at a minimum untill the herd was thoroughly thinned......
AMRAAM has the capability to be guided by Datalink. After ejecting the rail in a certain direction, it can be vectored through AWACS And for that PD radar might not play a long part.Perhaps the AMRAAM is not as 'silent' as PL-15E, Viper also has a 'more noisy' PD radar.We have heard, in 2019, then Sqd. Ldr Hasan Siddiqui guided his AMRAAM , in semi-active mode , for very long to ensure it connected with the desperately maneuvering Flanker, all this creates 'noise'. Perhaps PAF wanted to keep the individual aircraft radar emissions at a minimum untill the herd was thoroughly thinned......
If a standoff EW aircraft like DA-20 provides a jamming blanket, that further enhances survivability of F-16, AWACs and AMRAAM, while also confusing the flanker so the activation of its defensive measures are degraded. Now add another layer of spoofing and meaconing through a ground based jammer. Pretty interesting use of EW in air combat.
PAF could do that probably but lets look at 2-3 different variations.
1. J-35 induction:
-> F-16 remains at MLU 3/5, ADF and Block 52+
->J-10 stands at 36
->J-35 comes up to 18, which brings in dynamics of stealth in air combat for PAF
2. J-35 isnt inducted
->J-10 reaches 72 in numbers. That gives PAF a true multirole frontline fighter that takes all responsibilities of F-16s squadrons.
-> JF-17 remains as attrition backbone.
-> F-16 status is undecided as universal circumstances dictate if USA offers FMS package for upgradation at a lower cost that PAF accepts
3. J-35 isnt inducted.
-> PAF decides to induct UCAV squadrons instead of a manned fighters. This brings in thousands of LMs along with wingman type UCAVs that can carry PL-17s or PL-19s.
-> PAF considers that 36-40 x J-10 as the frontline fighter.
-> JF-17 and UCAVs combo become the main offensive force of PAF, where JF-17s fly with UCAVs behind a salvo of LMs to conduct strikes.
-> F-16 status as in previous scenario.
Which scenario would you prefer and why ?
Yup, kindly allow me to inform PAF the process of procuring an aircraft. Damn, they need guidance on this one.
@Be dazzled
Don't think too much. The brass feels that Chinese assistance isn't the same which it was pre 2000's.
Don't think too much. The brass feels that Chinese assistance isn't the same which it was pre 2000's.
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