Sami_1
Registered Member
I posted this article on page 12 of this thread. I copied & pasted the entire thing on post #177.
And this was from this past February 4th, so it's only a few months ago and not an old article.
Egypt is reportedly in negotiations with Italy and the United States to acquire Eurofighter Typhoon and F-15 fighter jets.
Link.
We discussed this a little bit that day. The article said that the deal will NOT include the Meteor or AMRAAMs and it also mentioned Sisi is insisting on either the two or at least the meteor for sure and he won't accept a $3.1 Billion deal for 24 Typhoons if they don't include the meteors which is good! And he should do the same for the F-15s which if you think about it, stem back to CAATSA and the Su-35 deal. They were "compensation" for backing out of the 30 Su-35S.
But if the Italians (Typhoon) and the Americans (F-15) and even the French (new Rafales) stick to their guns, what happens then? What are Egypt's options? You see how we have our balls tied up to a rope? It hurts!
Even if we were able to either buy the ASTRA from India or the PL-15 or build our own AMRAAM, these jackoffs won't allow us to integrate them on any of our current or prospective platforms.
We won't be able to buy anything. This is why this problem is much bigger than some people realize. All the cards are stacked against us.
We've accepted 240 F-16s without the AIM-120 for free and even the upgrade to block 40 didn't included them nor the advanced IFF sensor package. We had to create our own IFF.
We've not only accepted but paid for 24 Rafales without the promise of upgrading them to being meteor capable since we bought the F3 which still hadn't been set up to fire the missile. We don't even know if they've really been upgraded to F3-R standard. So yes, unfortunately I would say we do settle for less than the top advanced platforms because we really have no choice and they're better than nothing. Heck even with the MiG-29M/M2 they didn't order them with the latest R-77-1 (RVV-AE) and got the older standard R-77 despite the former being available. Or even any of the longer-range R-27M/E/EM/ER etc. Not a single R-27!! I can never figure out for the life of me why they didn't get those missiles. Maybe Putin is actually subservient to the demonic entity next door just like the US?
And I'm sorry, I don't subscribe to the theory that they hide these things and that they're unknown and all that. I don't buy it. That might've been the case with the Tor-M & Buk-M series and the Protivnik-GE radar but then guess what? We eventually saw them as they simply can't hide them forever, right? Not only that, with all the Israeli sources you're familiar with, they would've picked up on those purchases and announced them in complaint in a heartbeat. So I'm sorry, I don't buy that theory for a minute, certainly not for the larger weapons systems.
Yes. We've done it before there is nothing to suggest they wouldn't do it again. If they made a better effort and actually made announcements to suggest they will not accept this & that or whatever, then yes I would believe it. But they SUCK at that public relations aspect and never say anything. So in that case, I won't believe any of that until either they actually announce them, or we see them. They chose to be that way so the hell with them. I won't support them blindly just because of nationalism and loyalty. They owe the Egyptian people some explanations so we can believe them and if they don't want to, then fine. I believe it when I see it, that's just me. Anyone else wants to believe otherwise, that's their prerogative.
And the European & Russians have proven that they'll happily take our money but still not provide us with the top advanced missiles. And I bet you 1 million $ the Chinese will do the same exact thing. There is nothing that suggests otherwise so until there is some proof that things would be diffferent with these countries, then fine. Let's see the 30 new Rafale show up with Meteors hanging off the belly pylons and then I'll believe it. Let's see at least the MiG-29Ms with the RVV-AE or the R-27 and I'll believe it. The Chinese I'm afraid will bever happen and we don't need to introduce a 3rd weapons systems to our already convoluted logistics IMO. But again, that's just me.
I was just asking if the Mirage 5s have been retired or are they still active. That's all. It seems like all we see nowadays are the 2Ks and no more 5s.
"Cancelled the Su-57 deal"? That's news to me that they even had a deal for the Su-57 in the first place lol. Are you sure about that? I'm on several Russian websites & forums and keep up with all the latest info on their exports and even who's delegations are at MAKS exercises & exhibits to see who's interested and never, ever heard of the EAF having a deal for the Su-57.
Maybe you mean "they were interested" in the Su-57 and then decided to wait for the new engine to be available before making a deal. That's entirely different from having a deal that they cancelled.
And now there's a problem with the Ka-52 and the Mi-8/17s in the EAF as the President-S EW defensive system has been compromise with the high rate of losses the Russians suffered in the Ukraine in the early days of the war. They've lost over 200 Ka-52s and now they're forced to develop a new system to replace the Vibestk/President-S because with those losses, the system has fallen in the Ukrainians' hands which undoubtedly have given the US & UK for reverse engineering. Now Rostec or whomever is designing a new ADS system to replace the Vibestk & Pres-S on the new Ka-52M that is just coming out. Another unfortunate consequence of the Russian war in Ukraine.
WUUUUUUUTTTTT?!?!?!? Are they mentally ill? lamlamalaaaaooooo! The Jews have literally lost their gaddam minds! lol. What the frig is out there that is an alternative to the F-35 besides all the local 5th gen aircraft currently being produced like the KAAN and the Korean one etc., none of which are even close to being available for their own air forces let alone supplied to Egypt. Let's get real, here. That's one of the most ridiculous things I've heard so far (not from you, Sami, but from the zionist) LOL. Crazy bastards. They must be referring to the Rafale when they say that. Them silly donkeys.
Ok, let me tell you how I see this entire ordeal with the Su-35. When the orange baboon was president of the United States, and that was when the Su-35 pictures for the EAF ones were starting to flood the internet, I think we all remember then not only secretary of state Mike Pompeo but also Mark Esper the secretary of defense BOTH warned Egypt in a full statement and in a congressional meeting that they would activate CAATSA on Egypt if it would go through with the Su-35 deal, I'm sure you remember that, right? Here it is for those who might have a hazy memory.
US Defense Secretary Mark Esper and Secretary of State Mike Pompeo warned that if Egypt goes ahead with its planned purchase of the Russian built Sukhoi Su-35 super flanker fighter jet, the US could enact sanctions on Egypt through the Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act of 2017 (CAATSA). Source.
Now this is no joke and it is clear as day that Sisi does not want any sanctions from the most powerful country in the history of mankind. He will never jeoperdize the economic frailty of Egypt over 30 Su-35s no matter how awesome they are. And this contract was signed in 2017 and the aircraft were ready for delivery in 2020/21 so it's been 4 years since those aircraft were built and we've seen absolutely nothing about them being in Egypt except for a couple of donkeys on YouTube (and here unfortunately) who claim they've seen them in hangars in Egypt and all that silliness.
Look, Sami, if there is anyone out there who would go dancing naked in the streets from joy if the Su-35s were in fact in Egypt with EAF insignia on them even with just the RVV-SD lol, it would be me! Look at all the pictures I post on here and all the discussions I have about that aircraft. My obsession is out of control about those because it's a potent aircraft and would elevate the EAF exponentially so much more than they already are. With all that said, if anyone would want to believe that there is some secrecy involved and that they are in fact still on the menu (so to speak) it is this guy. But I am way too objective about everything that I refuse to believe what cannot be proven. It's a simple concept, really. So I apologize if I'm just not on board with the theory that the deal is not cancelled until I see proof otherwise. That's just me and who cares what I really think anyway lol.
Ok, let's go with the theory that the Su-35s (or at least some of them) are in fact in Egyptian hangars. What then? What is the end goal? Are they hiding them so that the US doesn't know? Really? You think that's even remotely possible? Why risk such an idiotic thing if the threat of sanctions will always be looming? What is the use of doing such a thing? Will they be useful? 4 years since they've been available and they're just sitting in hangars and not flying? Because you know if they were flying, the whole world would know about them. It makes no sense that they would risk sanctions over 30 Su-35s no matter how awesome those jets are. And on top of all that, the majority of them (at least 22) were seen STILL in Russia just as of last year around this time when Kim Jong-un visited Russia and we all saw the pics.
Well that's what we're about to find out with these current negotiations for the Typhoons plus F-15s if they succeed.
So if I'm understanding you correctly, the EAF has not made the cancellation of the Su-35 official just yet because it's all contingent on if the US supplies the F-15 with AMRAAMs? And the Typhoons with Meteor? So they're using the Su-35 as a bargaining chip? That theory I could buy. There's a slight possibility that could be the case because it's reasonable and makes a lot more sense than all the "hiding in hangars" and not taking the threat of CAATSA seriously etc.
That would be the least trustworthy source ever. If it wasn't cancelled, they would be complaining and bitching left & right about it you can bet that.
I don't know, why? Are you saying they're hiding them also? Not sure I understand the point you're making.
Because it would be 100x worse if they implement CAATSA, that's why. And what economic pressure from America is Egypt under now that you are referring to exactly?
I agree. A lot of people used to say "why is Egypt spending so much money on its military for all this new & modern weaponry? They don't need all that they don't have any threats" hahaha. Little do they know. Egypt is surrounded by all the threats you just mentioned including the cretin vermin inside of Egypt itself. And there's the biggest threat of all that we're all VERY familiar with and I, for one, am very happy at the way the military is taking all the precautions it has so far to mitigate that threat from the neighbors to the northeast.
Sorry about the long reply post. It's the only way I can address all your points.
Recycling old news does not mean that there is real interest or 15,000 contracts, and before that, 35,000 contracts were requested.
But the facts remain that first-class weapons were not contracted for. You did not even obtain a missile like TOWB, even though it is old, unlike its modest range and its exaggerated capacity.
We clarify matters. In November 2013, the United States informed Egypt that it was ready to meet Egypt’s arms demands on the condition of canceling arms deals with the Russian side. The Egyptian regime was not able to return to America in 2013 because it would destroy
The Egyptian negotiations with the European Union in 2013 were also focused on European support in exchange for the head of the ruling regime becoming a representative of the interests of the European side. Therefore, you find that there is a priority to meeting the interests of the European Union in Egypt.
Egypt cuts off the wealth that its people provide to Europe
Food exports: Any food that is suitable for export with good specifications will be given priority for export to Europe
Egypt has become the center of European waste and the expulsion of refugees from Europe to Egypt to rid Europe of refugees. This is the policy of the regime and the head of state.
In exchange for Europe, it supports the head of the Egyptian regime so that it does not fall, whether financially or politically, and all corruption files in Egypt are overlooked in exchange for caring for European interests in Egypt, and this is what the Egyptian regime considers a source of strength against America.
The latest information that arrived is that the visit of the Egyptian Chief of Staff was related to the sale of corvettes, OPVs, and frigates with the Italian side, and there was no talk about the Eurofighter Typhoon deal and the deal worth $8 billion.
Regarding the AMRAAM missile
Egypt was the first country in the Middle East to integrate the AIM-7 missile into the F-16 aircraft in 1988.
When Egypt made the F-15 deal, it said it wanted to integrate the AIM-260 missile as well, which is in the testing stages, and not just the AIM-120C8 missile.
The process of integrating the PL-15E or ASTRA missile is not a joke, or America will restrict supplying it to fighters, even F-16 aircraft. Technical solutions for integration are available if the restrictions are political, and these restrictions collapse completely with the first shot fired by Israel against Egypt.
The Americans themselves are fully aware that the carrot and juice policy is not very effective because the carrot for Egypt does not meet its needs. We will illustrate a simple example. In 2006-2009, Egypt ordered 48 MIG-29SMT aircraft and 24 SU-35 aircraft.
Many spoke of American pressure on Egypt, but America at the time offered Egypt 24 F-16 BLOCK 52, huge quantities of American armor and tank stocks, and even turrets for M1A1 tanks as stockpiles of spare parts, in exchange for Egypt canceling the SU-35 & MIG-29SMT deal. So why? Things changed in 2013 because Egypt simply saw that American policies would weaken Egypt in a way that could not be accepted and that there was no real benefit from American offers.
Who represents economic pressure on Egypt, not America through its Gulf arms?
Regarding the Rafale deal with France, Egypt negotiated in 2013 and the negotiations ended in 2015. At this time, the experiments to integrate the Meteor missile that it chose had not even taken place in 2017, that is, two years after the Egyptian Rafale deal was signed. Therefore, Egypt had concluded the following:
The Rafale F-3 aircraft can be upgraded to the F-3R version when it is ready, and the ammunition available for export at that time is what Egypt contracted for, which is MICA.
AASM & 50 SCLAP
Successful Completion of Integrated Flight Testing Campaign of Meteor Air-to-Air Missile onto the Rafale Omnirole Combat Aircraft
Apr. 27, 2017
(Source: French Defense Procurement Agency, DGA; issued April 26, 2017)
Having completed the integration of the Meteor long-range air-to-air missile, and with its new AESA radar now in production, the Dassault Rafale currently offers the most advanced sensor/weapon package of any Western fighter. (DGA photo)
On April 6, 2017, teams from the French Defense Procurement Agency (DGA), Dassault Aviation, MBDA and Thales successfully completed the final guided firing (integration flight test) of the Meteor long-range air-to-air missile against an air target from a Rafale omnirole combat aircraft.
https://www.defense-aerospace.com/f...ation-of-meteor-air-to-air-missile-on-rafale/
Regarding the new RAFALE deal that was signed in 2021
The deal included the supply of METEOR missiles, and the ammunition included 200 Meteor missiles, 50 MICA NG, and 200 SCLAP.
Despite Egypt's original demands for 300 SCLAP and a larger number of METEOR missiles
The RAFALE deal includes developing the Egyptian version with updates F-4.1/4.2
When their integration into the fighters is complete, and this is the nature of the Egyptian military, they do not contract on any major systems unless they are guaranteed to enter service in the original product.
That is, Egypt simply did not accept the Rafale aircraft without the Meteor missiles, but rather what is actually available and not contracting for the systems and paying for them before they enter service. They contracted the Meteor missiles many years ago as part of the Typhoon fighter deal, but when do they receive them after more than 10 years of receiving the fighters, so what is the benefit?
The same applies to the Egyptian Rafale, which included the KH-31 because it was an Indian condition for contracting it with France, along with American ammunition, which Egypt also requested because Egypt manufactures American bombs.
Ha ha ha, regarding the SU-35 deal, who said that it is one deal, and who said that Egypt is hiding it out of fear of America? In reality, the regime in Egypt has money driven by a worthless American administration. They themselves are bribed and corrupt and can be bought, but why would Egypt buy them when they have nothing in their power and will not give Egypt what it wants?
Whoever said that Egypt is hiding the plane out of fear of American sanctions, this is American propaganda to hide some people and show that America is a country that everyone is afraid of. Things are different from that. When the Americans threatened, the media responded that Egypt only cares about its interests and does not care about American sanctions through retired military personnel as long as Egypt is not subject to sanctions. Actually
We come to the sanctions that Egypt has already imposed on them. I will give you the example of Egypt, the Egyptian satellites that Egypt has contracted with China for and through German companies. America refuses to supply advanced computer systems and processors, and the negotiations continue, and then negotiations finally take place on systems with very modest capabilities. So, the action was imposed on you. Sanctions, so why do you care about America? America used to give in the past. Grants, aid and aid, while America is currently stealing from all its allies, whether Europe or the Gulf, they are thieves by force of arms
Simply put, if Egypt had offered the obligations of loyalty and obedience to the Americans and actually feared their sanctions, it would have obtained the alternative.
So why are there permanent negotiations between Egypt and America regarding negotiated arms deals that in themselves mean that Egypt does not refuse to contract with the Americans?
Egypt is asking the Americans for cheap solutions, not just the technical level of weapons
I will give you an example: Turkey signed a deal to purchase 40 F-16 fighters and develop 80 and ammunition for a value of $23 billion. These deals are completely rejected. When Egypt asks America to develop the F-16, it requests the purchase of the APG-83 radar at a price not exceeding $2-3 million, just as the US Air Force bought it for... Developing the first batch of F-16s with 300 aircraft. Egypt Why do you buy the AIM-120C8 missile at a price of 2-2.5 million dollars while the price of the ASTRA missile does not exceed half a million dollars and the PL-15E missile is at a price of 250 thousand dollars? Egypt will not spend 25-30 million dollars to develop each F aircraft. -16 for BLOCK level 72 including ammunition
This is evident in the MIRAGE-5 aircraft development programmes, which did not exceed $5 million per aircraft
When France offered Egypt to develop the MIRAGE-2000 at a price of 40-50 million per aircraft, Egypt completely rejected these offers, and the Italians had development offers at a price of 20 million dollars, so Egypt at that time preferred to supply the MIRAGE-2000 aircraft with Corona war systems from Marconi, extend the life of the aircraft, and equip it with the MICA missile and a bomb. Al-Tariq
The same applies to why you bought the development of the M1A1 & M109 tank, as long as the American offers for their development were high. Egypt chose Korean weapons and integrated parts of their components as a development for these American weapons. You are a country that possesses thousands of these weapons, and Egypt will not spend billions on them while making the best purchases for newer weapons instead of developing older weapons.
The consequence of not declaring has its own interests, and it is the declaration that gives Israel the right to obtain more weapons so that the supply of armaments is not disturbed.
The announcement is a restriction that stops other European deals, not American ones. Europe fears the growth of the Egyptian navy and fears the Air Force’s capabilities exceeding certain capabilities. Therefore, when negotiations for more GoWIND corvettes - 2500 & MEKO-200GP faltered, and even the Germans and the French refused to develop equivalents requested by Egypt after the supply was completed, why did Egypt turn to South Korea? Turkey's purchase of corvettes and OPV ships is a message to the Europeans that alternatives exist, so Italy provided greater negotiating flexibility, which resulted in a visit by the Chief of Staff to discuss the extent of the technical reduction and financial compensation for the deal.
You are forcing the Europeans, so hinting at TYPE-39C dives is a pressure factor on the European basins to provide the best technical and financial offers because alternatives exist.
The CASTA law does not concern Egypt. Simply put, the Egyptian situation is not the same as the Turkish one
Turks do not depend for their economy on Europe and America. Technology transfer depends on Europe and America
Türkiye is a member of NATO
When the Turks complied with American orders and canceled the FD-2000 contract for air defense missiles, they did not obtain anything, meaning that obeying American orders did not provide them with an alternative.
Then the Turks, what did they get in the end? A deal that is considered a loss for Turkey, as it benefits 40 F-16 fighters, the development of 80, and the American approval to develop another 120 with Turkey’s systems, worth $23 billion. This number qualifies for the purchase of Chinese or Russian fifth-generation aircraft, with numbers of more than 200 fighters, and not the development of an F-fleet. 16 old
The Americans want to convert the entire F-16 fleet into UCAV aircraft
That is, no one cares about the American sanctions. Rather, it is what is in exchange for what you want. So, the bottom line of your relations with America is what is in return as long as you are not committed to anything and you are placed among the countries from which technology is prohibited, then simply
America does not care about Egypt’s interests. We give the example of America wanting to establish an India-Israel corridor to attack the Suez Canal and its development project. Egypt classifies it as an enemy. Does Egypt trust it?
America is behind the October 7 attacks, as it is a Russian-American conflict
America wants to displace Palestine in order to establish a port in Gaza and a free trade zone in its place, and to transfer the Palestinians to Egypt, a first stage, then an Israeli-Egyptian conflict over Sinai, a second stage. That is, simply Egypt’s interest. America does not care about it. Is Egypt, seeing the American hostile policy, waiting for fighters from it, or even concerned with American pressure?
Egypt did not announce any purchases of the SU-35, T-90MS, or ANTY-4000. This does not mean that these deals have stopped, but simply to stop the flow of American weapons to Israel, which it obtains for free. So why does Egypt increase the conflict and the arms race if it can reduce it only by announcing what has no effect?
