HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

[vkdindian]

is it F16 BLK 52 of Pakistani Air Force

Come on man.
Obviously against the one in the neighbourhood.

 

[Guru Dutt]

Come on man.
Obviously against the one in the neighbourhood.

well those have AIM C5s which they baught way back in 2005 (500 in number of which majority are way past shelf life )with 110-120Km range at 50000 f-55000 feet altitude but problem is they have only 18 BLK 52s and rest upgraded to BLK 40 level by turkie and even the US ones dint get the regular software updates & new source codes and any pilot of F16 knows what that leeds too

 

[Circadian Rhythm]

Tejas MK 1 can fire ASTRA MK 1
which is Equal to AIM 120 C5

However with All 4 th Generation planes carrying Good Radars and Jammers
BVR missiles can be evaded

BVRs are good for disrupting an incoming Strike Package

But Ultimately the Fight will come down to Close Combat Missiles

Here things like Low Wing Loading, Climb Rate , Auto Low Speed Recovery ,Helmet Mounted Sights will be very useful

 

[Guru Dutt]

Tejas MK 1 can fire ASTRA MK 1
which is Equal to AIM 120 C5

However with All 4 th Generation planes carrying Good Radars and Jammers
BVR missiles can be evaded

BVRs are good for disrupting an incoming Strike Package

But Ultimately the Fight will come down to Close Combat Missiles

Here things like Low Wing Loading, Climb Rate , Auto Low Speed Recovery ,Helmet Mounted Sights will be very useful

well then here LCA bieng a crancked compounded delta (for better low speed manouv) has the lowest wing loading and has one the best HOBS capabilities (israeli helmate mounted display and HUD along with related sensors) and ASRAAM V/s decade and half year old version AIM9 sidewinder of PAFs F16 and 2005 vintage F16 avionics with very limited HOBS

 

[vkdindian]

well those have AIM C5s which they baught way back in 2005 (500 in number of which majority are way past shelf life )with 110-120Km

Past shelf life may not mean unusable. Even India has many missiles past shelf life, but certified for usage and life extended many times.

In case of a skirmish that we saw in 2019, a smaller number of F-16 wouldn’t matter, since they could be employed in the area of interest. SU-30 being such a capable fighter was outranged on that day. IAF has taken measures to address that, but all capable fighters should have a missile to address a situation like that. A situation like a skirmish where the best available assets are likely to be in play.

PAF has come up with J10 and PL-15, but Meteor should be able to counter that. It is a cat and mouse game after all.

India shouldn’t allow that kind of situation to recur ever again and use all available means to do that.

 

[vkdindian]

But Ultimately the Fight will come down to Close Combat Missiles

It might but it might not. Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. It was proven right when a Bison was shot down.

 

[Circadian Rhythm]

It might but it may not.

Hope for the best but prepare for the worst. It was proven right when Bison was shot down.

Our Borders are so large that any Strike Package can sneak in from any corner

So only way you can stop it is having CAPs on a 24 / 7 basis
All along the border , which is obviously not possible

Wasting BVRs without hitting any Targets is also not advisable

So Drones ,Long Range missiles
MBRLs have become equally important like Fighter planes

 

[vkdindian]

So only way you can stop it is having CAPs on a 24 / 7 basis
All along the border , which is obviously not possible

Wasting BVRs without hitting any Targets is also not advisable

So Drones ,Long Range missiles
MBRLs have become equally important like Fighter planes

I agree.

But a situation where fighters come face to face, our fighters shouldn’t be found wanting. We need to equip them for that situation.

Having a mix of various kinds of weapon systems is always a good idea.

 

[Guru Dutt]

Past shelf life may not mean unusable. Even India has many missiles past shelf life, but certified for usage and life extended many times.

In case of a skirmish that we saw in 2019, a smaller number of F-16 wouldn’t matter, since they could be employed in the area of interest. SU-30 being such a capable fighter was outranged on that day. IAF has taken measures to address that, but all capable fighters should have a missile to address a situation like that. A situation like a skirmish where the best available assets are likely to be in play.

PAF has come up with J10 and PL-15, but Meteor should be able to counter that. It is a cat and mouse game after all.

India shouldn’t allow that kind of situation to recur ever again and use all available means to do that.

well most of the russian air to air missiles are converted into SAMs post there air worthy shelf lifes like R73 and R 27s even the french ones

as for current ones ASTRA MK I is already in Mass production while MK II is just entring user trail phase after compliting its develpment phase and for stop gap we have I DERBY ER , MICA twins and METEOR

as for chinese PL series well they tend to boast more and have less substance .... its better to be humble sometimes .. but OK

 

[Guru Dutt]

Our Borders are so large that any Strike Package can sneak in from any corner

So only way you can stop it is having CAPs on a 24 / 7 basis
All along the border , which is obviously not possible

Wasting BVRs without hitting any Targets is also not advisable

So Drones ,Long Range missiles
MBRLs have become equally important like Fighter planes

Russia Ukraine war has tught many lessons not just to west but to all one in pertikular is how to awade radars by saturation and the overwhelming importence of technology and battlefield cunningness /jugar ... latest example for the same in India is converting R73s and R27s into quick reaction short & medium range surface to air missiles or upgrade of soviet Shilka anty aircraft guns with desi radars and elctro optical sensors and putting russian weapons on french aircraft and vice versa or Super Sukhoi Upgrade programme

 

[Justin TruDont]

Which is the longest range BVR on Tejas? Can it outrange AMRAAM armed F-16s?

I believe it will be the Astra MK1 with 110 km range

iDerby also has a range of around 100+ Km
While R77 will be around 80km

 

[Justin TruDont]

Their were 2 short comings which were found during Feb 2019 skirmish

1st was lack of Software Defined Radios which was a cheap upgrade and someone in the planning department at IAF should have thought off in early 2010s
This was fixed by way of emergency purchases from Israel

2nd was the Range of Indian BVR missiles.
We must accept that on that fateful Day, Paf F16s had a longer range BVR
and overall better BVR missiles than Indian Aircrafts.

Their only mistake was That they fired their expensive Bvr missiles at close to the maximum range , and not at no escape zone range .
Which meant that most of their missiles missed their mark.

Had PAF fighters actually wanted to shoot down Indian fighters , they would have fired their missiles at 70-80km range , to ensure better kill probability.

But then they would have been in the firing range of MICA and R77 and IAF would have an equal chance of shooting them down

Induction of Meteor Missiles along with Rafales as well as Introduction of iDerby and Astra Mk1 with Su30mki, Mig29upg and Tejas Mk1 has negated any BVR advantage enjoyed by those 17 PAF F16s

 

[vkdindian]

While R77 will be around 80km

R77 weren’t up to the task in the last skirmish.
We need to have a clear edge over the adversary. If they see a lock from our aircraft, then they should start manoeuvring to save themselves due to better range missiles on IAF aircraft and not otherwise.
That is the kind of edge that should be obtained and maintained, that too across the entire fleet of capable fighters. SU-30, M2000, M-29 and Tejas seem to be the ones currently. Rafale is already up there with the best.
Astra is coming up well and I Derby is also decent. Astra’s future too looks good.
We can’t be dependent on imports to maintain the edge. Home grown solutions with continuous upgrades can keep the edge with us over the long term.

 

[vkdindian]

1st was lack of Software Defined Radios which was a cheap upgrade and someone in the planning department at IAF should have thought off in early 2010s
This was fixed by way of emergency purchases from Israel

2nd was the Range of Indian BVR missiles.
We must accept that on that fateful Day, Paf F16s had a longer range BVR
and overall better BVR missiles than Indian Aircrafts.

Both these show utter failure of our acquisition and procurement.
PAF has been using encrypted radios for ages. DRDO made a promise to develop one and failed like always.
PAF got AIM long back. What was IAF thinking? What made them think that PAF would not come out on top in a situation like that? What really was the plan? A few heads should have rolled in the ministry, IAF as well as DRDO after that.
There is no reason for Indian defence forces to not maintain a decisive edge considering the resources available.

 

[Justin TruDont]

Both these show utter failure of our acquisition and procurement.
PAF has been using encrypted radios for ages. DRDO made a promise to develop one and failed like always.
PAF got AIM long back. What was IAF thinking? What made them think that PAF would not come out on top in a situation like that? What really was the plan? A few heads should have rolled in the ministry, IAF as well as DRDO after that.
There is no reason for Indian defence forces to not maintain a decisive edge considering the resources available.

We currently have around 350 Fighters( Su30mki+Tejas MK1+Mig29upg) capable of firing the Astra MK1, compared to 75 F16s in PAF which could theoretically fire the Aim 120c5

It will be the Astra MK2 that will give us the combat edge over Aim 120C5s
Astra MK2's 130-160km Range and a no escape zone of 90km will allow us fire first in any engagement with PAF

We also have 36 Rafale F3R capable of Firing Meteor BVR

India is also looking at the extended range MICA ER , which has a range of 110km but has the weight of a WWR missile like ASRAAM.

We need this missile to replace our current stock of MICA missiles used by Mirage 2000v5 which come with an 80km range and a no escape zone of 60km

The french have been reluctant to allow us to add Astra MK1 to Mirage 2000