HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

[vkdindian]

It will be the Astra MK2 that will give us the combat edge over Aim 120C5s
Astra MK2's 130-160km Range and a no escape zone of 90km will allow us fire first in any engagement with PAF

They got AIM120 in 2005. It was 14 years till 2019, when we didn’t have a counter. And it has been few years since then. Shows our entire system in bad light.

The cycle of maintaining the edge is a continuous process and can’t stop.
Astra series would probably give us that leeway and make us independent from imports.

 

[Faceless]

We currently have around 350 Fighters( Su30mki+Tejas MK1+Mig29upg) capable of firing the Astra MK1, compared to 75 F16s in PAF which could theoretically fire the Aim 120c5

And how many Astra we order less than 300, can't even equip each fighter with 1 Astra, so spare me the mental gymnastics of proving why IAF isn't incompetent

when Did Astra complete it's Developmental trials 2017.
When Did IAF wakeup and order the missile, *drum rolls* 2022 and that too in such small numbers
Tell me again who's fault is this, 5 years it took IAF 5 years to do user trials and eventually order the missile. This is nothing but gross incompetence on IAF's part

India is also looking at the extended range MICA ER , which has a range of 110km but has the weight of a WWR missile like ASRAAM.

And what advantage does the "weight of WVR" gives.
It's just 30 kg lighter than Astra

DRDO made a promise to develop one and failed like always.

Genuinely asking When was DRDO asked to develop Airborne SDR by IAF,

Please go ahead and shoot them. I am not defending anyone here.
There is enough on Google to indicate the process started in late 90s. As per the policy at that time, when IAF projected the requirement of SDRs, DRDO was asked, if they can develop one. They never say no to anything. Till 2019 happened and we realised how f##ked up our unsecured communication is.

All I am getting from Google are some obscure links from DRDO and random UPSC sites with no clear timeline indication, so do give me some links as to when the airborne SDR program started

MoD and BEL sign contract for procurement of Software Defined Radio (Tactical) worth over Rs 1,000 crore

Ministry of Defence (MoD) and Defence Public Sector Undertaking (DPSU) Bharat Electronics Limited (B

pib.gov.in

DRDO devloped Naval SDR completed user trials in 2018 (meaning Developmental trials were completed much earlier, most likely by 2015-16) and when did we order them in 2021.
But go on tell me DRDO is the worst and Armed Forces were not ordering SDRs because they were waiting for an indigenous option and not because they are slow as a sloth with no f**king sense of urgency

 

[vkdindian]

And how many Astra we order less than 300, can't even equip each fighter with 1 Astra, so spare me the mental gymnastics of proving why IAF isn't incompetent

Please go ahead and shoot them. I am not defending anyone here.

Genuinely asking When was DRDO asked to develop Airborne SDR by IAF

There is enough on Google to indicate the process started in late 90s. As per the policy at that time, when IAF projected the requirement of SDRs, DRDO was asked, if they can develop one. They never say no to anything. Till 2019 happened and we realised how f##ked up our unsecured communication is.

 

[vkdindian]

so do give me some link to support this 90s claim of yours.

You seem to be angry with me for some reason. It sounds like give the link otherwise………..
It could be early 2000 also. Bottom line is that DRDO took the responsibility and failed.
The issue here is DRDO’s failure. Exact number of days or years in failing to execute a task isn’t the issue.
The defence forces have issues of their own.
It is a murky business with all players in the mud.

 

[Faceless]

You seem to be angry with me for some reason. It sounds like give the link otherwise………..
It could be early 2000 also. Bottom line is that DRDO took the responsibility and failed.
The issue here is DRDO’s failure. Exact number of days or years in failing to execute a task isn’t the issue.
The defence forces have issues of their own.
It is a murky business with all players in the mud.

I am sorry if you felt that way, I am not angry with you in any way or form, why would I be.
I am just at frustrated how Armed Forces get away Scott free from their fu*k up's by pointing fingers at DRDO when in reality they are equally at fault and nobody in the general public questions their incompetence and chalta hai attitude.

 

[vkdindian]

I am sorry if you felt that way, I am not angry with you in any way or form, why would I be.
I am just at frustrated how Armed Forces get away Scott free from their fu*k up's by pointing fingers at DRDO when in reality they are equally at fault and nobody in the general public questions their incompetence and chalta hai attitude.

I agree that the mistakes/slipups/failures are across the board.
In some cases one is bigger than the others. Procurement of SDRs was one such area. IAF had apparently been very keen to get them but was bogged down by the processes in place at that time. The speed with which it was acquired post 2019 shows, how botched up these things are.

It used to look hopeless, but I guess things are getting better now

 

[MirageBlue]

IAF sure went withTesting R73 also before Python V on LCA platform and yes Both R73 and PYTHON V are compatiable with LCA as close quarter missiles but problem with PYTHON V is large number of control surfaces on it making it highly terbulent specially in sub sonik flight some even call it as vortex geretor thats the main reason why ASRAAM is bieng chosen as common close quarter missile for Mirage2000 & LCA and even Jaguars and Su30 MKI while same IAF & Israelies had even incorporated R73 into Mirage2000 though Dassault objected with it initially .... point is IAF with help of Israelies and french has now intigrated all Air to Air Missiles with all its frontline fighter aircrafts for sake of comminality

That issue with flutter when using Python V was resolved. There could be no test firing until that was done.

ASRAAM has some other advantages- fewer control surfaces being one, but also the longer range and bigger motor, while weight is lower.

 

[MirageBlue]

Which is the longest range BVR on Tejas? Can it outrange AMRAAM armed F-16s?

Astra Mk1. Yes, it can. It has shot down a Banshee drone at 88 km range.

 

[MirageBlue]

also which F16

is it F16 BLK 52 of Pakistani Air Force

of F16 SUFA of Israeli Air Force

or F16 of Turkish Air Force without latest US upgrade kits

Basically AIM-120D is the longest range AMRAAM variant out there currently.

PAF doesn't possess that variant, they have the AIM-120C5 variant. It has a stated range of 105 km, which is very close to that of the Astra Mk1.

 

[GoMig-21]

BTW, does anyone else think the Tejas was slightly inspired/influenced by this classic design? Particularly with the wing root beveled edge. And the vertical stabilizer, the spine and even the fuselage especially on the ventral side. Canards with moving surfaces of course not, but the rest is eerily close.



I can see the wings for sure and even the Mirage forward fuselage section like in this graph, but I see more like the things I mentioned. And just FYI, this is not a knock at all. Even if there was inspiration from the Viggen and Mirage, nothing wrong with that at all. It's a good thing, just wondering if some think there is some truth to it or if it's just coincidence.

 

[Nilgiri]

BTW, does anyone else think the Tejas was slightly inspired/influenced by this classic design? Particularly with the wing root beveled edge. And the vertical stabilizer, the spine and even the fuselage especially on the ventral side. Canards with moving surfaces of course not, but the rest is eerily close.

View attachment 38850

I can see the wings for sure and even the Mirage forward fuselage section like in this graph, but I see more like the things I mentioned. And just FYI, this is not a knock at all. Even if there was inspiration from the Viggen and Mirage, nothing wrong with that at all. It's a good thing, just wondering if some think there is some truth to it or if it's just coincidence.

View attachment 38851

The compound delta this way is essentially an attaching of the canard to a plain delta (as to the canard coupling effect with vortex generation from the canard larger spanwise component etc.....to mitigate/delay flow separation at higher AoA...i.e effectively increasing the AoA and related envelopes...... and then essentially making the distance between them zero to simplify things into simpler geometry)...so yes there is influence on the design driver side.

It was British friend, an aerodynamics guy that had a long chat with me one time on trip about this stuff.

There are design drivers to do it the opposite way like with the Draken as well....or a LERX with non delta like the F-18. It depends on where you want to optimise performance the most in subsonic - supersonic regimen with other design considerations in the larger aircraft at same time. The F-18 LERX and its piezoelectric interim solution (given a bad vortex it generated in the 1980s original prototypes etc) actually was part of first job one of my professors (a Brazilian this time who cut his teeth with embraer first) was involved with, he assigned case study of it in class....probably still does heh....because its a great example to illustrate lot of engineering needed in these systems in real world.

 

[Guru Dutt]

I believe it will be the Astra MK1 with 110 km range

iDerby also has a range of around 100+ Km
While R77 will be around 80km

quite right

range of I Derby ER and AIM120 C5 but the actual range is said somewhere around 35 to 55 nautical miles 64.82 to 101.86Km in 5 to 9 km flight altitude that goes up as altitude increases are almost identical and ASTRA MK I was designed from start to have more range than both of them and less bulkier and lighter as compared to its russian counterparts surving with IAFs SU30 & MIG29s

already DRDPO is working overtime for next gen GaN based AESA SEEKER head for new versions of ASTRA and other air to AIR and Air to ground weapons amd SAMs based on these new technologies

 

[Guru Dutt]

BTW, does anyone else think the Tejas was slightly inspired/influenced by this classic design? Particularly with the wing root beveled edge. And the vertical stabilizer, the spine and even the fuselage especially on the ventral side. Canards with moving surfaces of course not, but the rest is eerily close.

View attachment 38850

I can see the wings for sure and even the Mirage forward fuselage section like in this graph, but I see more like the things I mentioned. And just FYI, this is not a knock at all. Even if there was inspiration from the Viggen and Mirage, nothing wrong with that at all. It's a good thing, just wondering if some think there is some truth to it or if it's just coincidence.

View attachment 38851

Both Viggen (double DELTA) and Mirage(CLASSICAL DELTA ) are are Low wing mounted designs while LCA is a Comounded cranked much like rear delta of Viggen but HIGH WING mounted design and aerodynmics work very very differntly in all three DELTA designs so dose fuel and engine requirements and even FBW neess differentr aproach and thats because all three were designed for diffrent roles in mind ... hope you get the drift .......cheers mate

 

[Circadian Rhythm]

More Work Needed for ASTRA Integration

So Right Now DERBY is the BVRAAM for TEJAS

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[Archie]

And how many Astra we order less than 300, can't even equip each fighter with 1 Astra, so spare me the mental gymnastics of proving why IAF isn't incompetent

when Did Astra complete it's Developmental trials 2017.
When Did IAF wakeup and order the missile, *drum rolls* 2022 and that too in such small numbers
Tell me again who's fault is this, 5 years it took IAF 5 years to do user trials and eventually order the missile. This is nothing but gross incompetence on IAF's part

And what advantage does the "weight of WVR" gives.
It's just 30 kg lighter than Astra


Genuinely asking When was DRDO asked to develop Airborne SDR by IAF,


All I am getting from Google are some obscure links from DRDO and random UPSC sites with no clear timeline indication, so do give me some links as to when the airborne SDR program started

MoD and BEL sign contract for procurement of Software Defined Radio (Tactical) worth over Rs 1,000 crore

Ministry of Defence (MoD) and Defence Public Sector Undertaking (DPSU) Bharat Electronics Limited (B

pib.gov.in

DRDO devloped Naval SDR completed user trials in 2018 (meaning Developmental trials were completed much earlier, most likely by 2015-16) and when did we order them in 2021.
But go on tell me DRDO is the worst and Armed Forces were not ordering SDRs because they were waiting for an indigenous option and not because they are slow as a sloth with no f**king sense of urgency

Dude,

India is not a military state.

Every military expenditure has to be justified to CAG and the parliament , otherwise the opposition will not let the government work.

In the aftermath of Feb 2019
India ordered some 400 R77 ER missiles which is an improved version of this missile , these will replace the older R77 Missiles which were inducted in 2006

We also ordered 350 Astra mk1 Missiles for IAF and Navy

The reason we did not order more was , because by the time this order gets completed , Astra MK2 will be ready with its 160 km range.

This missile is the same size as Astra MK1 but offers far greater range and no escape zone

Also note that Astra MK1 has been tested to shoot down a target at 87 km, so Astra MK2 could have a kill range of 100km+