The possible ways of action of the Egyptian army in an initiated war against Israel

[GoMig-21]

Personally I don't think Egypt has the stomach for war with Israel and they have not been preparing for such a contingency in any real way.

How would you know this? Just curious.

 

[enroger]

How would you know this? Just curious.

By "real way" I mean a complete re-orientation of doctrine towards asymmetric warfare with Israel as main adversary just like Iran and Hezbollah.

Obviously Egypt hasn't done that, I'm sure there are a couple of war plans in EAF for say a Sinai situation but those are not at the level of seriousness I described. If Egypt is really contemplating war with Israel then we'd have been able to see it from their procurement plans over the years.

Geopolitically Egypt is also not viewing Israel as main adversary the way Iran is, before Oct 7 Egypt is on their way on normalization of relationship with Israel.

 

[Abid123]

Israel would have air supremacy and decimate the Egyptian Army. There is no question of Egypt's castrated air force posing a remotely potent threat to Israel.

You have played a lot of battlefield over the years, it seems.

 

[arjunk]

You have played a lot of battlefield over the years, it seems.

Do you remember Yahya Khan's disastrous assault on Ramgarh in 1971, where 18 Division was sent guns blazing with no air support only to be halted by IAF at Longewala?

Do you remember Pathans reached the outskirts of Srinagar Airport in 1947, only to be bombed to oblivion by IAF? Indian Army soldiers were cowering in their positions and contributed little to nothing.

Do you remember how things went when just 16 PAF jets were tasked with defending the whole of East Bengal?

 

[Ramses Akhenaten Ahmose]

Russian equipment is stuck in 1980-1990s for jaming and seekers still better then the 1960s tech of aim7

That's the problem...

At this point the smart play is to get Chinese equipment ..instead of rafale had Eygpt gone for j10 it could have acquired local production or if jf17 a full 300 complement with both stand off weapons and stand off BVR

Apparently it was shelved for shinny useless unequipped rafales

What the most important is that China helped Pakistan to build up a full functional air-fight system including the airborne early-warning system, radars, missiles etc. J10 and JF17 is only one node of this system. The most powerful thing is not the airplane •themselves, but the whole system. In contrast, our enemy India cannot integrate its various sub-systems effectively, which is a great disadvantage in my understanding.

Even so, outperforming Tejas isn’t really saying much, the Indians have china and the Pak military bordering them so they’re forced to up their manufacturing capabilities, so in the future a more refined tejas will eventually be a cause for concern. That’s why Egypt was negotiating for the tejas only for experimental and designing experience purposes, not really frontline combat. The Israeli elta radar can be switched out for alternatives such as French, South Korean radars. The ws-13 is a better and newer engine, except it’s Chinese manufactured and not Pakistani made. Further more, china still produces almost half of the components of the advanced flight system. Maybe this is planned to change in the future, I don’t know. The Tejas mk2 is said to have up to 11 weapon hard points, while jf 17 has only 7. In theory the mk2 will be able to conduct more mission options while the latter is in serious need of an upgrade for more diverse mission objectives. Perhaps a block 4 variant will address all of that.

 

[The SC]

You have no idea what no escape ranges are and what and how BVR works

Basically a big LOL

Stick with the aim7 BVR lol..no wonder how are several times inferior adversy did This amount of thrashing in 1960-1970s..I thought the rumours of more training by deputies from Pakistan and rest of world were just rumours but I guess it was not only that but an attitude problem as well

Your attitude of misplaced arrogance..you mean!?

 

[GoMig-21]

By "real way" I mean a complete re-orientation of doctrine towards asymmetric warfare with Israel as main adversary just like Iran and Hezbollah.

Well, I'm sorry to say, but that is not what you said. You said this:

enroger said:
Personally I don't think Egypt has the stomach for war with Israel and they have not been preparing for such a contingency in any real way.

Having "the stomach for war in any real way" is a far cry from changing an inherent 80-year, defensive military doctrine & culture that has seen 4+ wars including the last one in 1973 that not only changed just the entire course of tank warfare tactics in the Middle East, but around the world. And to suggest it should emulate a militia that incorporates guerilla tactics as its primary methods of warfare is so absurd and insulting on such a level that I refuse to believe that was your intention. Because of how blatant that was.

The Egyptian army's dedicates a tremendous amount of training, resources and personnel to special operations forces in the army which include separate SOFs units, the paratrooper's corps, the navy corps and even within the mechanized & engineering corps. Not to mention its dedicated counterterrorism, SWAT & police. This is a real army placed in high worldly ranking not a guerilla posse. To suggest that is incomprehensible.

I'll tell you what, the Hezbollah analogy is not even worth touching, but I'll go with the Iran comparison for now since that's much more appropriate in terms of tactics only. But to suggest not having the stomach means you're implying Egypt doesn't have the wherewithal or even just plain will to go to war which is not only absurd to no end, it's insulting on another level.

That aside for now since I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend your intentions were not to insult the willpower of the Egyptian army & people since they're both one and the same and engage you in the tactical elements of your argument.

I said in the beginning of this thread that if the whole idea of going to war against the zionist entity was ever to occur, it would only be in defense of Egypt from a zionist attack, and not the other way around. This is a plain fact. Egypt has no intentions to initiate a fight or an offensive war into Israel and its entire doctrine is predicated on defending the country's lands from invasion by the zionist entity only, since the other threats are minor by comparison. Libya & Sudan pose nothing compared to the zionist who BTW, attacked us twice and stole our dearly beloved Sinai Peninsula in a criminally shameful attempt to expand their territory. Had Egypt not fought back and won in 1973, the roadway to retrieving the entire peninsula would still be untenable just like the Golan Heights are for Syria.

As far as Iran is concerned, I have huge respect for its independent tenacity and resolve to maintain that independence from minimal reliance on the west. And their use of proxies is perfectly fine with me as long as it's intended to keep its enemies from harming it as well as in support of the Palestinian cause, but not for any aggression against Sunis of any nation which is another subject. I only mention it to be precise and cover everything.

Your suggestion of Iran's methods of asymmetrical warfare using proxies is not something that would benefit Egypt whatsoever. And in many ways, one can say it actually does exist to a certain extent with Hamas but it's in a different dynamic than the way Iran benefits from its proxies. So no, that asymmetrical stuff is not for Egypt.

Iran's air force certainly has its limitations as its presently constituted, but I don't buy the notion that it's ineffective or insignificant like many on this board do. The way it's shifted its strength into its drone-making ability and especially its ballistic missiles capability is where I see significant strength that is certainly worthy of emulating, to your point. Egyptian military industry is actually quite active with its drone production.

Other than that, Egypt's defensive posture is quite strong and capable and is only improving every year. What it lacks are potent offensive capabilities and I'm pretty sure the brass realizes that having strong offensive capabilities improves your defensive ones, so that's a must. The modernization of the entire military in just the last 10 years has been out of this world. And its ballistic missile program is completely covert and underground that only the barest of information is available which is a good thing.

I honestly suggest that you and @arjunk take a skim through this thread Egyptian Air Defense started by @The SC it's only 8 pages so far but a treasure trove of Egypt's air defense capabilities including all its radars ( @arjunk , to your point regarding what anti-stealth radars Egypt possesses etc. this will answer all of that and then some) and the EADS is only 1 of the 4 major military branches that make up the Egyptian Armed Forces and hopefully you'll get a better appreciation of how prepared the Egyptian military is to defend itself which goes completely against the implied notion of lack of wherewithal or fortitude. The other 3 branches are covered extensively in the Egyptian Armed Forces thread. Cheers.

 

[The SC]

Urgent | The occupation army escaped from the border in front of the Egyptian army! Biden warns Netanyahu of Egypt's anger

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[The SC]

In the coming days, ambassadors between Tel Aviv and Cairo may be withdrawn and relations may be severed.

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Time to get the SU-35 SE.. not 30 but 60 ..

 

[GoMig-21]

Your suggestion of Iran's methods of asymmetrical warfare using proxies is not something that would benefit Egypt whatsoever. And in many ways, one can say it actually does exist to a certain extent with Hamas but it's in a different dynamic than the way Iran benefits from its proxies.

lol, even the paranoid zionist get it.

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Translation:

Al-Sisi's dark secret? Egypt joining the lawsuit against Israel in The Hague (he's referring to Egypt's declaration to join South Africa at the ICC) is another layer in the panic that Cairo is radiating from the action in Rafah - a panic that already goes far beyond the fear of an influx of Palestinian refugees to Sinai. According to some estimates in Israel, the Egyptians fear that the occupation of the Philadelphia corridor will reveal such an extensive network of tunnels between the Gaza Strip and their sovereign territory, in a way that will not allow them to deny that for years they enabled the insane arming of Hamas, and probably also helped it. As Baruch Yadid first published on Channel 14, the son of President Al-Sisi apparently cut huge coupons (probably meant "benefited") from the smuggling industry under the Philadelphia axis. When the IDF entered the Gaza Strip, the field commanders were shocked by the insane amounts of weapons and ammunition that were discovered there - another layer in the unforgivable intelligence failure of the IDF and the Shin Bet, and in this context, probably the Mossad as well. Such amounts could only flow into the Gaza Strip through Egypt, and it is unlikely without Egyptian knowledge. The exposure of the network of tunnels under the Philadelphia corridor will push Egypt into a problematic corner and will cut off an important source of income for the top of the government and the military. LOLOLOL whatever. One of the explanations is that between the leadership in Cairo and the Muslim Brotherhood movement, which is the most significant opposition to the secular rule of Al-Sisi, and Hamas is a part of it, there was an unofficial agreement according to which Egypt would help arm Hamas in Gaza, in exchange for industrial peace at home. LOLOLOL whatever. And all, apparently, under the noses of Israel and our intelligence and military services, who for years praised and glorified the Egyptians as making an irreplaceable contribution to Israel's security.

 

[The SC]

The American trap for the Egyptian army in Gaza

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CC for English

 

[SaadH]

Well, I'm sorry to say, but that is not what you said. You said this:



Having "the stomach for war in any real way" is a far cry from changing an inherent 80-year, defensive military doctrine & culture that has seen 4+ wars including the last one in 1973 that not only changed just the entire course of tank warfare tactics in the Middle East, but around the world. And to suggest it should emulate a militia that incorporates guerilla tactics as its primary methods of warfare is so absurd and insulting on such a level that I refuse to believe that was your intention. Because of how blatant that was.

The Egyptian army's dedicates a tremendous amount of training, resources and personnel to special operations forces in the army which include separate SOFs units, the paratrooper's corps, the navy corps and even within the mechanized & engineering corps. Not to mention its dedicated counterterrorism, SWAT & police. This is a real army placed in high worldly ranking not a guerilla posse. To suggest that is incomprehensible.

I'll tell you what, the Hezbollah analogy is not even worth touching, but I'll go with the Iran comparison for now since that's much more appropriate in terms of tactics only. But to suggest not having the stomach means you're implying Egypt doesn't have the wherewithal or even just plain will to go to war which is not only absurd to no end, it's insulting on another level.

That aside for now since I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and pretend your intentions were not to insult the willpower of the Egyptian army & people since they're both one and the same and engage you in the tactical elements of your argument.

I said in the beginning of this thread that if the whole idea of going to war against the zionist entity was ever to occur, it would only be in defense of Egypt from a zionist attack, and not the other way around. This is a plain fact. Egypt has no intentions to initiate a fight or an offensive war into Israel and its entire doctrine is predicated on defending the country's lands from invasion by the zionist entity only, since the other threats are minor by comparison. Libya & Sudan pose nothing compared to the zionist who BTW, attacked us twice and stole our dearly beloved Sinai Peninsula in a criminally shameful attempt to expand their territory. Had Egypt not fought back and won in 1973, the roadway to retrieving the entire peninsula would still be untenable just like the Golan Heights are for Syria.

As far as Iran is concerned, I have huge respect for its independent tenacity and resolve to maintain that independence from minimal reliance on the west. And their use of proxies is perfectly fine with me as long as it's intended to keep its enemies from harming it as well as in support of the Palestinian cause, but not for any aggression against Sunis of any nation which is another subject. I only mention it to be precise and cover everything.

Your suggestion of Iran's methods of asymmetrical warfare using proxies is not something that would benefit Egypt whatsoever. And in many ways, one can say it actually does exist to a certain extent with Hamas but it's in a different dynamic than the way Iran benefits from its proxies. So no, that asymmetrical stuff is not for Egypt.

Iran's air force certainly has its limitations as its presently constituted, but I don't buy the notion that it's ineffective or insignificant like many on this board do. The way it's shifted its strength into its drone-making ability and especially its ballistic missiles capability is where I see significant strength that is certainly worthy of emulating, to your point. Egyptian military industry is actually quite active with its drone production.

Other than that, Egypt's defensive posture is quite strong and capable and is only improving every year. What it lacks are potent offensive capabilities and I'm pretty sure the brass realizes that having strong offensive capabilities improves your defensive ones, so that's a must. The modernization of the entire military in just the last 10 years has been out of this world. And its ballistic missile program is completely covert and underground that only the barest of information is available which is a good thing.

I honestly suggest that you and @arjunk take a skim through this thread Egyptian Air Defense started by @The SC it's only 8 pages so far but a treasure trove of Egypt's air defense capabilities including all its radars ( @arjunk , to your point regarding what anti-stealth radars Egypt possesses etc. this will answer all of that and then some) and the EADS is only 1 of the 4 major military branches that make up the Egyptian Armed Forces and hopefully you'll get a better appreciation of how prepared the Egyptian military is to defend itself which goes completely against the implied notion of lack of wherewithal or fortitude. The other 3 branches are covered extensively in the Egyptian Armed Forces thread. Cheers.

Even so, outperforming Tejas isn’t really saying much, the Indians have china and the Pak military bordering them so they’re forced to up their manufacturing capabilities, so in the future a more refined tejas will eventually be a cause for concern. That’s why Egypt was negotiating for the tejas only for experimental and designing experience purposes, not really frontline combat. The Israeli elta radar can be switched out for alternatives such as French, South Korean radars. The ws-13 is a better and newer engine, except it’s Chinese manufactured and not Pakistani made. Further more, china still produces almost half of the components of the advanced flight system. Maybe this is planned to change in the future, I don’t know. The Tejas mk2 is said to have up to 11 weapon hard points, while jf 17 has only 7. In theory the mk2 will be able to conduct more mission options while the latter is in serious need of an upgrade for more diverse mission objectives. Perhaps a block 4 variant will address all of that.

JF-17 blk III has 8 hardpoints and with dual racks, you can bump it up to 10.

 

[Admiral General Aladin]

What about Pakistan's F-16 fleet that don't fire the AIM-120? If I'm not mistaken, I think the only ones capable of firing the AIM-120 are the block 52s and either 4 or 12 or all 16 of the A/B's after their MLU upgrades. Correct me if I'm wrong I don't want to make assumptions on something I'm not very familiar with, just going by what I know a little bit about which is not all the PAF F-16s are BVR capable. If so, does that make them also

Well.all of pakistan's F-16 can fire aim-120c5 except ex jordanian 13 F-16s.that means 62 paf's F-16 can fire aim-120c5.and paf's jf-17 block 1,block 2 can fire sd-10(active bvr),block -3 can fire pl-15e.and of course new j-10c can also fire pl-15e.Paf's air chiefs are not idiot like egyptian military leaders.

 

[mulj]

if this happens which will not in any realistic prognosis, only smart way to conduct war by egyptian army is to convert tens of thousands toyota pick ups and into various variants of combat vehicles and conduct isis style of warfare and preserve what it can of their conventional combat units.

 

[UKBengali]

I cannot see how Egyptian Army would even be able to cross the Sinai as the Zionist planes would have total air superiority and shoot down the EAF and then start bombing the EA with F-35s and long range stand off munitions. There would be unlimited supply by US/UK and Germany but Egypt would not get resupplied and it would be under a total US/UK blockade and so not even Putin would be able to resupply if he wanted to.

Unless Egypt gets an actual competitive fighter plane like the upcoming Chinese J-31 then it could only fight defensively against the Zionist entity.

Edit - the other option is for Egypt to develop ballistic missile capabilities like Iran.