Pakistan’s JF-17 Thunder Bags Another Fighter Deal, Media Says; India’s LCA Tejas Banks On Massive IAF Contract

[guangdongt]

Why do you say that the block I and II have completed their mission.

Because in the report introduction back then, Pakistan's expectation for the JF17 was to improve it in batches. For Block 1, I remember the report stated that only about 70% of the basic F16 model was required to be able to replace the old generation aircraft. The early JF-17 Block1 did not have multi-purpose combat capabilities and could only launch Thunder-5 missiles for close range air combat, without medium range air combat capabilities. The JF-17 Block2 fighter jet began to have beyond visual range air combat capabilities and multi-purpose combat capabilities, requiring the ability to launch Lightning 10 medium range air-to-air missiles, CM-400AKG air-to-ground missiles, and C802 anti-ship missiles. Italy's grife-s7 radar could not be integrated with these weapons. Therefore, in the final evaluation stage around 2011, the Pakistani Air Force agreed to let the JF-17 Block2 fighter jet use domestically produced KLJ-7 radar. KLJ-7 is a lightweight flat panel slot antenna radar that can detect targets the size of fighter jets up to 130 kilometers in a straight line. It has functions such as synthetic aperture imaging and ground moving target indication. After equipping the KLJ-7 radar with the JFK fighter jet, the Pakistani Air Force is very satisfied with the performance of this radar, believing that its performance is superior to that of the Grifo-S7 radar. After being equipped with KLJ-7 radar, the Xiaolong Block2 fighter jet participated in actual combat in the Kashmir region in 2019

 

[mulj]

I would argue, claiming credit for some one else's achievement is equally stupid, if not more.

Who claims it?

 

[Jaeger]

500 million USD and that too was just in the beginning.

Who told you that developing a specific part has anything to do with ownership of the platform? Martin baker makes ejection seats for Tejas or GE makes its engine. Do these companies own Tejas?? You are so confused. I am only schooling you that Pakistan has ownership of the program and you simply cannot compare it with your liscence productions. Compare it only with your own product. Only then a comparison can be drawn otherwise any comparison is simply non-applicable.

When two countries jointly develop a weapon system on a 50-50 basis.

They distribute the burden of development amongst themselves. Half the components of the weapon are developed in one country and the other half in other.
Each country provides their own development agency the required budget to develop the said components.
That is how ownership gets divided.

In JF 17's case, no components of the aircraft were developed by PAC. Instead Pakistan provided Chinese government half of the funding for the project.

In the strictest that makes Pakistan an investor in JF 17 and not its developer.

Just because China allows Pakistan to claim 50 percent ownership of the project, as they have very little interest in it themselves and is a side project for them, that they don't want to induct in their own airforce in the first place.

If I bought Apple shares, I would own a piece of the company and all their products, but that does not mean, I can contribute in development of next generation of Iphones.

 

[Jaeger]

Who claims it?

Pakistanis do, when they compare JF 17 with Tejas.
Jf 17 is a Chinese aircraft, Tejas is Indian. What is there for Pakistanis to be proud off?

 

[mulj]

Pakistanis do, when they compare JF 17 with Tejas.
Jf 17 is a Chinese aircraft, Tejas is Indian. What is there for Pakistanis to be proud off?

Not in that way like they invented new thing.
What characterize something when you want to claim something as yours? For me it is ownership primary and in that way they have full right to do so, so you are wrong.
What to be proud you ask, well they managed to scramble decent aircraft with rather small investment and solved huge problem of needed aircraft quantities with nice export prospects and moved on more sophisticated projects to enhance quality of their air force, i would be proud also in that case.

 

[CallSignMaverick]

Is it license produced MKI?

Russia also don't use Brahmos missile. Brahmos must be shittiest missile in the world, no ? that even its maker don't use it but uses different variant.

Your own logic is at works against you.

I never make such hilarious logic at first place. I know every country have their own requirements.

MKI is an Indian custom built Flanker, infact Russian MSs were derived from IAF's MKI version and ordered for Russian Airforce.

Russia already has Oniks to use and Zircon hypersonic missiles, so importing BrahMos from India makes no sense for them. While Philippines purchased BrahMos recently.

Pakistan owns JF-17 project. Its the owner of the program. Pakistan's PAC & China's CATIC both are 50% partners in it.

And that makes it a JV, not "owner".

JF17 targeted Indian military installation with its REK SOWs, which btw was the primary mission of swift retort.

PAF said we purposely crashed the bombs elsewhere as our aim was to send a message to Indians and not to escalate, their fanboys here otoh have already dreamt that our installations were "bombed" lmao.

 

[Jaeger]

Not in that way like they invented new thing.
What characterize something when you want to claim something as yours? For me it is ownership primary and in that way they have full right to do so, so you are wrong.
What to be proud you ask, well they managed to scramble decent aircraft with rather small investment and solved huge problem of needed aircraft quantities with nice export prospects and moved on more sophisticated projects to enhance quality of their air force, i would be proud also in that case.

And I am proud of the Apple stocks that I own, they give me good dividends. I even bought a MacBook and iphone from Apple.

In essence I own very small part of every product that apple owns.

Does that mean, can I now claim that I designed the iPhone?

And then compare myself to designer of Samsung Galaxy phones and laugh at their designs?

 

[mulj]

And I am proud if the Apple stocks, that I own, they give me good dividends. I even own MacBook and iphone.

In essence I own very small part of every product apple owns.

Does that mean, can I now claim I designed the iPhone?

And then compare myself to designer of Samsung Galaxy phones and laugh at their designs?

Apples and oranges, why lot of indians use logic in limited and narrowed way straw maning subjects?
But let me answer if you gave some technical inputs to the designing team and final product resembles it, yes you can consider yourself as designer in a way.

 

[Jaeger]

Apples and oranges, why lot of indians use logic in limited and narrowed way straw maning subjects?
But let me answer if you gave some technical inputs to the designing team and final product resembles it, yes you can consider yourself as designer in a way.

So Iphone users, who gave feedback to the company regarding the design improvements on next generation of iphones can claim they designed the iPhone...wow!!

 

[guangdongt]

So Iphone users, who gave feedback to the company regarding the design improvements on next generation of iphones can claim they designed the iPhone...wow!!

The metaphor is not appropriate, iPhone is a completed and widely used product. When China and Pakistan successfully completed a joint venture project, don't you find it ridiculous to preach to others in a post on JF17 with the unfinished test product Tejas

 

[Jaeger]

The metaphor is not appropriate, iPhone is a completed and widely used product. When China and Pakistan successfully completed a joint venture project, don't you find it ridiculous to preach to others in a post on JF17 with the unfinished test product Tejas

What is the Pakistani contribution to the joint venture?

 

[guangdongt]

What is the Pakistani contribution to the joint venture?

For China: valuable war experience provides more directions for improvement. The exploration of jointly promoting international markets has expanded geopolitical trade. For Pakistan: delving into the entire process of modern fighter jet design, production, and improvement, establishing a more sound aviation industry complex, and manufacturing some equipment, the JF17 truly reflects the cooperation needs of the two countries in that era

 

[Awwad]

What is the Pakistani contribution to the joint venture?

In short, Without Pakistan, there would have been no JF-17.

The whole thing is started by Pakistan. It was project for PAF. You will see Immense contributions if take off your bias and bakht mentality. Immense contributions financially, PAC engineers team was part of every step, PAF F-16 pilots were there. The input of Pakistanis being users on western systems was invaluable and list goes on. Pakistanis could provide more input in such regards. Infact first director of JF-17 project AVM Shahid Latif said we took F-16 as benchmark for various modules in the project. Ofcourse only Pakistanis knew those parameters. Chinese technology with Pakistani expertise and overall contribution made it success for both. BTW! Chinese & Pakistan have serious partnerships in defense and interoperability. Both value each other.

And that makes it a JV, not "owner".

LOL, Who told you that Joint venture does not mean ownership??? Both owns the project at 50% each.

 

[Awwad]

And I am proud of the Apple stocks that I own, they give me good dividends. I even bought a MacBook and iphone from Apple.

In essence I own very small part of every product that apple owns.

Does that mean, can I now claim that I designed the iPhone?

And then compare myself to designer of Samsung Galaxy phones and laugh at their designs?

Comparing petty 0.0000001% of shares with JV and equal ownership program is as hilarious as anything. Did you approached Apple with your concept that you wanted a phone for your own use and perhaps later other users can buy it too ? Did you send money to apply for R & D. Kind of degraded mentality you are showing is epic. All to deny that JF-17 is own platform of Pakistan. LOL!! Epic!

 

[Awwad]

Pakistanis do, when they compare JF 17 with Tejas.
Jf 17 is a Chinese aircraft, Tejas is Indian. What is there for Pakistanis to be proud off?

IF JF-17 isn't Pakistani than how come Tejas is indian? Okay maybe 20% indian?? The mega component, the most criticial & largest part of the aircraft i.e its engine comes from the US. So according to your logic, 60% of Tejas is already American then there is whole list of components imported from all over the world. The whole ejection seat comes from outside, the EW modules, the weapon systems have french components. Come on, you really serious? Apply same logic everywhere.

Both JF-17 & Tejas are owned by Pakistan & India but both uses imported parts. Period.