HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

Yes you are correct , but you have to consider the air to ground capability of the rafale and the different pods that comes with it, especially SPECTRA and at the time of tender eurofighter was inferior to rafale in terms of air to ground capabilities

Yes if i remember correctly eurofighter was superior in air superiority role but in term of air to ground rafale was superior. Basically Rafale Omni-role thing is better suited to India.

Regarding J10 thing, Su35 was on offer but without AESA while PAF preferred Su35 with AESA. Also J10 is much more compatible and easily integrate-able than Su35. Plus Cost and Supply surety and Indian influence on Russian are all there among many other things.

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

I am not denying it but how come Tejas is superior design than F-16.
Your fellow poster was again babbling same old shit that Tejas design was out of this world.
If it only comes to design then Tejas has nothing to offer anything superior than F-16.
And if it comes to avionics and ammo of latest F-16 then again there is no comparison.
I am not talking about typhoon, Gripen (latest Gripen is not better than latest F-16) Rafale. The guy said F-16 was outdated frame so India did not buy.

I didn’t say anything; it was the Indian Air Force that, after thorough evaluation, stated that the F-16 is an outdated platform and should be in the junkyard, despite being the cheapest fighter jet and the US offering a newly designed version, the F-21, and setting up a local assembly line in India. The IAF showed no interest in it. F-16 was the first fighter jet to be kicked out of the MMRCA competition by the IAF.

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

Yes if i remember correctly eurofighter was superior in air superiority role but in term of air to ground rafale was superior. Basically Rafale Omni-role thing is better suited to India.

Regarding J10 thing, Su35 was on offer but without AESA while PAF preferred Su35 with AESA. Also J10 is much more compatible and easily integrate-able than Su35. Plus Cost and Supply surety and Indian influence on Russian are all there among many other things.

Eurofighter is superior to the Rafale, and no one can deny that. But, F-16 is outdated and the Indian Air Force has stated it's an outdated junk platform. Just because F-16 is cheap doesn't mean it's good.

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

Maybe because the previous versions of f16 ( before block52) are somewhat technologically inferior but the f16 has regular upgrades and the latest block72 is at par with any other 4.5 gen warbirds.
It was offered to us as per our MMRCA tender in F21 configuration with local production and spares ,high availability ,and other frills / bells
But we turned it down in favor of rafale and eurofighter, as they were considered superior and their weapons package was more potent (there was also a high level of distrust with the f16 suppliers) ultimately rafale was the winner

The F-16 offered to India was intended to be the most advanced and redesigned version of the F-16. However, the Indian Air Force referred to the F-21 as a modified junk and rejected it. Being rejected in the initial evaluation and labeled as outdated by the IAF does suggest that F16 should retire.

 

[panzerfaust 3]

Pakistanis themselves tout J10c as some superadvanced import which can survive against Rafale, but at the same time they forget that it has the delta wing which make it relatively modern compare to F16 .
It's their insecurity which is why they don't offer the credit of having modern delta wing airframe to Tejas.

They should have picked j11 or sukhio35 when they had the chance ,for now there's no heavy fighter in the PAF
but still I belive that j10 is good enough, problem comes with its engines ,the Chinese have been constantly refining their technology but they still aren't able to make an engine comparable to their western counterparts and even Russians have a better & technologically proven engine

Tejas has a pretty decent airframe and avionics,it has one of the best engines that money can buy ,a very potent weapons package , localised production promising no shortage of spares ( except the engine which is currently given a decent thought with the help of French )
And the mk1A adds much to that ,MK2 will be on whole new level comparable to gripen

People don't understand what Tejas actually is! This simple aircraft will build us the much needed numbers , plus a local industry capable of producing modern aircrafts from scratch

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

They should have picked j11 or sukhio35 when they had the chance ,for now there's no heavy fighter in the PAF
but still I belive that j10 is good enough, problem comes with its engines ,the Chinese have been constantly refining their technology but they still aren't able to make an engine comparable to their western counterparts and even Russians have a better & technologically proven engine

Tejas has a pretty decent airframe and avionics,it has one of the best engines that money can buy ,a very potent weapons package , localised production promising no shortage of spares ( except the engine which is currently given a decent thought with the help of French )
And the mk1A adds much to that ,MK2 will be on whole new level comparable to gripen

People don't understand what Tejas actually is! This simple aircraft will build us the much needed numbers , plus a local industry capable of producing modern aircrafts from scratch

Chinese engines will keep improving over time, India needs an engine for the Tejas. Hopefully, the Kaveri engine will mature in the next 10 years and become powerful enough to power the Tejas. In the meantime, the dry variant can be used in drones or trainer jets. Within the next 2-3 years, we should see a Kaveri dry engine on an LCA trainer and also on the GHATAK UCAV drone. Additionally, India and France are discussing the co-development of an engine for fifth-generation fighter jets, including the Indian AMCA and the French fifth-generation fighter that France is planning to develop.

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

Chinese engines will keep improving over time, India needs an engine for the Tejas. Hopefully, the Kaveri engine will mature in the next 10 years and become powerful enough to power the Tejas. In the meantime, the dry variant can be used in drones or trainer jets. Within the next 2-3 years, we should see a Kaveri dry engine on an LCA trainer and also on the GHATAK UCAV drone. Additionally, India and France are discussing the co-development of an engine for fifth-generation fighter jets, including the Indian AMCA and the French fifth-generation fighter that France is planning to develop.

French are not planning any Fifth Gen Fighter. But 6th Gen.

 

[panzerfaust 3]

French are not planning any Fifth Gen Fighter. But 6th Gen.

Good for us , don't you think?
We can be a part of the technology or we can just buy things off the shelf!

 

[TAC]

The F-16 offered to India was intended to be the most advanced and redesigned version of the F-16. However, the Indian Air Force referred to the F-21 as a modified junk and rejected it. Being rejected in the initial evaluation and labeled as outdated by the IAF does suggest that F16 should retire.

Well if the IAF said that I’m sure every F-16 operator in the world is falling over themselves to retire their fleets Yet when the IAF encountered old MLU F-16’s we all know the outcome the mighty SU30MKI and Mirage 2000 could do jack

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

Good for us , don't you think?
We can be a part of the technology or we can just buy things off the shelf!

Honestly speaking, This is the best time for india to be part of that FCAS project because in no way they were able to develop 6th gen by themself by 2040. They can keep doing what they are doing but join the 6th Gen Train too. And FCAS is best suited for India and even if they don't join, in 2050, they are going to purchase it with hard cash. Better to be part of development right now.

 

[Deino]

USA has decided to develop a new fourth-generation fighter jet, which will resemble the Indian TEDBF. They have named it "5th Generation Minus." However, developing a fighter jet is very expensive, and it will take at least 20 years to complete. Until then, the USAF will have to operate the aging fleet of F-16s.

U.S. Air Force Entertains New Design To Replace F-16 | Aviation Week Network

The U.S. Air Force chief of staff envisions a 4.5-generation, or fifth generation “minus,” as the F-16 replacement.

aviationweek.com

Again posting just a random concept as a fact, as a decision made to develop only since it fits your theory regardless how much devoid of facts it is.

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

Well if the IAF said that I’m sure every F-16 operator in the world is falling over themselves to retire their fleets Yet when the IAF encountered old MLU F-16’s we all know the outcome the mighty SU30MKI and Mirage 2000 could do jack

On that day, a MiG-21 downed a Pakistani F-16 Block 52. You can keep denying it, I have no problem with that I don't speak with emotions, only facts and data.

 

[MirageBlue]

The range of Gallium Nitride (GaN) radar is double that of Gallium Arsenide (GaAs) radar, it requires less power to operate, and it is not easy to jam. I don't want to debate whether the Tejas is better than the F-16 repeatedly, but one thing I would like to mention is that the IAF rejected F-16 in the 2008 MMRCA, deeming it obsolete, and instead shortlisted the Eurofighter Typhoon and Rafale.
F-16 was the first to be dropped by the Indian Air Force (IAF) when short-listing aircraft for the Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) acquisition,

The IAF has a bias against the F-16 and in general a fear of sanctions from the US that may cripple a large part of it's fighter fleet.

The F-16 Block 70 that was offered in the MRCA contest met most of the requirements and would've been one of the most affordable contenders, but was naturally trumped by the Eurofighter and Rafale in terms of performance. The IAF used that to show the F-16 Block 70 the door and shortlisted the two most expensive and capable fighters in the contest.

It also meant that the MRCA turned into a very expensive deal compared to the earlier benchmark price and then with Dassault refusing to guarantee HAL's work, the deal fell through.

Obsolete is not a term one should use with the F-16 Block 70/F-16V/F-21. They're pretty damn dangerous fighters.

 

[MirageBlue]

MBDA won’t deny integrating meteor with Tejas but they will share source code only when India makes a bulk order for missiles

They are asking India to share the source code. Do you get that?

They are the ones who will integrate the Meteor with the Tejas' Uttam AESA radar and require not just the Uttam's source codes but also working prototypes for them to validate and test with. They are clear that the Meteor's datalink with the fighter's radar is proprietary tech that they will not share with anyone.

South Korea has had the Meteor integrated to the KF-21 Boramae. Guess what? They were ok with sharing the source code of their AESA radar that was designed and developed with Israeli help. But will India be ok to share it's proprietary technology with MBDA when Astra Mk3 (based on SFDR technology, similar to Meteor) is within a few years of being ready? I doubt it.

So Meteor and Tejas Mk1A/Mk2 are an unlikely fit. We'll make do with Astra Mk1 and the dual pulse Astra Mk2 till the Astra Mk3 is ready.

 

[MirageBlue]

Grapes are sour.... For sure.
F-16 would have been Indian's first choice, without any doubt, had there F-16 not been used by a "certain nation" flying them for 40 years.
40 years of experience is a lot of edge even with older generation jets.

Just like the nitwits on this forum, claiming that J-10CE is better than Rafale or that the Rafale isn't that great a fighter.

F-16s would never have been India's first choice given that we know very well about sanctions and how they can be applied by the US as an instrument of state policy.

Also, the Rafale and the Eurofighter were in the running against the F-16 Block 70 for the MRCA.

And even before that, when the F-16 was first offered in 2002, the IAF wanted more Mirage-2000-5s, not F-16s.