What book are you reading?

[hembo]

Will reply at leisure; fascinating. I am tempted to add the Bangla script, and look at things with that complication in place.

I was thinking the same with some noticeable similarity with Devnagari scripts, mainly, Hindi & Bengali/ Assamese.

@Nilgiri

 

[Joe Shearer]

I was thinking the same with some noticeable similarity with Devnagari scripts, mainly, Hindi & Bengali/ Assamese.

@Nilgiri

Go for it. No point delaying, and I have indifferent health and huge backlogs of housework to tackle. I can back up whenever you want.

 

[Indos]

Mostly book related to my work/upskilling my knowledge ( to make money/ business ) + motivational book occationally (entrepreneurship, etc) if I have some spare time

 

[hembo]

Go for it. No point delaying, and I have indifferent health and huge backlogs of housework to tackle. I can back up whenever you want.

@Nilgiri

 

[Nilgiri]

@Nilgiri

View attachment 58151

View attachment 58152

The connection stems a lot from "who the Pallavas even were originally" (not a named dynasty of the Tamils of yore - the Pandyas, Cheras and the Cholas)....and the concurrent Brahmi script arc for North and South.

Or as we Tamils often like to call Pallavas....affectionately as "the" Kanchi dynasty (their great capital was at Kanchipuram)

The Pali canon, Hindu epics and other immense cultural export by the Pallavas hugely influenced a large number of South East Asian scripts too.

Have a look at Burmese, Thai, Khmer, Javanese, Balinese, and old Malay script (Kawi) too when you have a chance.

In old Tamil movie song, we have MGR as "the" great Pallava emperor reflecting on sad divide arising with his sister (w.r.t another kingdom)..... and it moves the heart

"oru kodiyil, iru malargal....pirandhadhamma pirandhadhamama?...annan thangai uravu murai.....malarndhadhamma malarndhadhamma?"

one flag (branch), two flowers.... born (together)? x2
older brother, younger sister....that close bond....must bloom (surely in the end)? x2

And so that very same thing is seen in the Pallava language tree and its progeny today.

You Bongs have a very fine language too. But in end for me, nothing compares to Tamil, even when I look as objectively and neutrally as possible (I know quite a fair few number to compare across some divides).....simply we have the best one

 

[Joe Shearer]

You Bongs have a very fine language too. But in end for me, nothing compares to Tamil, even when I look as objectively and neutrally as possible (I know quite a fair few number to compare across some divides).....simply we have the best one

Uh, OK.

My daughter will half-agree! Since my wife took Higher Bengali (and got a good score) and since her own Tamil is that Mysorean compound known as Hebbar Tamil, she's probably neutral.

No, I do not plan to ask her.

 

[hembo]

The connection stems a lot from "who the Pallavas even were originally" (not a named dynasty of the Tamils of yore - the Pandyas, Cheras and the Cholas)....and the concurrent Brahmi script arc for North and South.

Or as we Tamils often like to call Pallavas....affectionately as "the" Kanchi dynasty (their great capital was at Kanchipuram)

The Pali canon, Hindu epics and other immense cultural export by the Pallavas hugely influenced a large number of South East Asian scripts too.

Have a look at Burmese, Thai, Khmer, Javanese, Balinese, and old Malay script (Kawi) too when you have a chance.

In old Tamil movie song, we have MGR as "the" great Pallava emperor reflecting on sad divide arising with his sister (w.r.t another kingdom)..... and it moves the heart

"oru kodiyil, iru malargal....pirandhadhamma pirandhadhamama?...annan thangai uravu murai.....malarndhadhamma malarndhadhamma?"

one flag (branch), two flowers.... born (together)? x2
older brother, younger sister....that close bond....must bloom (surely in the end)? x2

And so that very same thing is seen in the Pallava language tree and its progeny today.

You Bongs have a very fine language too. But in end for me, nothing compares to Tamil, even when I look as objectively and neutrally as possible (I know quite a fair few number to compare across some divides).....simply we have the best one

I'm not a Bengali, but Assamese.

On the topic: Dwelling a little deeper, I found that the similarity stems from its shared root of Brahmic scripts, which descended from the Brahmi scripts from the times of Sattvavahana dynasty (about 2nd-3rd century BCE), which in turn, may have even deeper root to the Indus scripts (unproven due to paucity of longer Indus script samples & the fact that it is still not deciphered hence).

 

[Nilgiri]

Uh, OK.

My daughter will half-agree! Since my wife took Higher Bengali (and got a good score) and since her own Tamil is that Mysorean compound known as Hebbar Tamil, she's probably neutral.

No, I do not plan to ask her.

I will never dispute such things, its just personal preference in end to the cadence.

My dad (Tamil mother tongue obv) tried proved his point that Telugu is sweetest sounding language of all by having balamurli devotional songs playing from time to time and we would also watch Telugu yesteryear movies from time to time....quipping to me now and then why does Tamil have to be so "guttural"?.

He sticks to that view and his knowledge of Telugu history and culture exceeds mine by a vast amount to back it in his case. A teluguphile if you will, though he has much love for Tamil and Sanskrit too.

But my experience of more diverse cadence in languages leads me to feel now that Tamil strikes a nicer balance with its mix of rougher edges and balanced coda.... in a way Telugu is "too sweet" to my ear.

So those immersed in Bong one first have their own sensibilities and contexts too....and the bias from that.

i.e I feel its not a tabula rasa, but definitely some form of Jungian archetype here...first mover advantage of our birth regd the love showered on you from one language at start till you hear others, close and far....but not really the same thing in end.

 

[Nilgiri]

I'm not a Bengali, but Assamese.

Apologies dada. I forgot.

On the topic: Dwelling a little deeper, I found that the similarity stems from its shared root of Brahmic scripts, which descended from the Brahmi scripts from the times of Sattvavahana dynasty (about 2nd-3rd century BCE), which in turn, may have even deeper root to the Indus scripts (unproven due to paucity of longer Indus script samples & the fact that it is still not deciphered hence).

Yes it is why I brought up Pallava regd southern brahmi arc.

They not being of the 3 established Tamil "houses" of the iron age, have one theory of them being Satvahana feudatories originally that were able to ingress into Tamil land from the deccan....and eventually become Tamil themselves for all intents and purposes.

Reading about them and their role in South Indian culture and beyond is a fascinating thing to do if you have the time and interest for it.

As for the origins of brahmi itself, that is another large mystery slowly being parsed together with some theories. Definitely do deeper dives at your leisure and interest to do so....tell us any good references and sources you find here when you want sounding board etc.

 

[Nilgiri]

It boils down to "was it worth the cost" (the stability you say)....was the same or better stability possible with another arc of folks running the show in same time period.

These are not easy derivations to find, but the answers do strike some intriniscally if

a) they have a staunch morality based set of core principles applied consistently
b) were close enough/seen enough close at hand to come to the same thing as a)

This is why I abhor Stalin. I abhor "even" Lenin. What they threw away recklessly and the costs that impacted, once you know the stories in the sufficient 99th percentile detail possible....the stability wrought was a fake thing once you know enough on that too, the details. Details matter....the fine print matters. Each one was a human life, and if innocent human life is a sacred sacrosanct thing....the cost computation becomes very apparent and brazen.

People notice and make fun of the certain larper/jester (doing his Fez wearing routine to try ladle his non-organic 19th century ottoman, his own words describing himself, on this thread in his own repetitive way)....but really its just a jester routine in end whether you throw a crown on him or not, he is harmless type as he's tucked away and looking for something here he cannot get in real life.

It is actual Turks (that called him out) that I made good friends with since they called him out in basic way (he doesnt know Turkish, we don't know why he's doing this etc). It was one of these Turkish friends I recently got interested in Dostoevsky, and only maybe next year when he is done with both crime and punishment and the brothers karamazov....can I then explain to him (because he is a worthy trusted one)....what really went on in Russia 19th-20th century transition wise and why.

Why the erosion of the limiting principle for convenience and claims of statist-altruistic utopia happened and how.

Why Dostoevsky clearly abhorred this and feared this in society....for society needs some great staunch principles of purpose and meaning, that altruism has to be done at the social level, not the govt level especially a totalitarian "might makes right" one....that things never ought to be ever whittled down for a few people's convenience to make this all so.

These are the things that matter in the end. The costs that matter.

This is why you will find Bongs here who disagree on this very same thing concerning SHW and BAL. Some saw the costs much more than others did. Others also simply are willing to foresake/overlook or dismiss things for veneer of stability, many things that really ought not to be. They often do not comprehend what stability even is to begin with, how to forge it and how and why.

We can discuss this more here according to your interest and time @Meengla , its deep subject in end. It has to be slow and leisurely....threads go more intensely and gather lot of irrelevant detritus.

Some may also not have picked up on some hints I left all through the various threads for this subject alone (current BD seachange), the deeper meaning I've established regarding human endeavours in general, at any scale big and small....and why.

 

[Meengla]

We can discuss this more here according to your interest and time @Meengla , its deep subject in end. It has to be slow and leisurely....threads go more intensely and gather lot of irrelevant detritus.

Some may also not have picked up on some hints I left all through the various threads for this subject alone (current BD seachange), the deeper meaning I've established regarding human endeavours in general, at any scale big and small....and why.

I don't think I am ready to engage yet--I saw your (quoted) message in the Sheikh Hasina thread and I largely disagreed with you then in that message.
But time is precious available to me these days due to circumstances; and people can tell I am mostly in the Israel-Gaza thread for many months. So please accept my apologies for not engaging on this at this point.
PS. I read Nietzsche's 'Beyond Good and Evil'. It is like my Bible. Has been on my bedside for decades. But lately even skimming that is rare.

 

[Nilgiri]

I don't think I am ready to engage yet--I saw your (quoted) message in the Sheikh Hasina thread and I largely disagreed with you then in that message.
But time is precious available to me these days due to circumstances; and people can tell I am mostly in the Israel-Gaza thread for many months. So please accept my apologies for not engaging on this at this point.
PS. I read Nietzsche's 'Beyond Good and Evil'. It is like my Bible. Has been on my bedside for decades. But lately even skimming that is rare.

Oh ok, well you indicated maybe separate thread to continue the convo, well if you ever want to pick up on it downroad....we can do so here.

I always wondered about your Nietzche DP heh.

As you may guess I am against the majority of his philosophy and large number of his axioms and conclusions....sometimes very vehemently so. But interesting to see his thought process regardless.

Nietzche also very much enjoyed Dostoevsky works btw. Nietzche referred to him as "the only psychologist from whom I had something to learn".

Being polar opposite on Nietzche to some degree might also explain to some degree our relative presence in the Israel-Gaza thread.... I cannot stand that thread as I already long know the topic at hand and how I have adjudged the matter's good vs bad.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I don't think I am ready to engage yet--I saw your (quoted) message in the Sheikh Hasina thread and I largely disagreed with you then in that message.
But time is precious available to me these days due to circumstances; and people can tell I am mostly in the Israel-Gaza thread for many months. So please accept my apologies for not engaging on this at this point.
PS. I read Nietzsche's 'Beyond Good and Evil'. It is like my Bible. Has been on my bedside for decades. But lately even skimming that is rare.

Keep a bookmark on this matter, then, for taking up in better circumstances.

 

[Fatman17]

The movie Breaker Morant was based on this book

 

[_NOBODY_]

@Nilgiri @Joe Shearer @RescueRanger I am planning on reading Genghis Khan and the Making Of the Modern World by Jack Weatherford.