Operation True Promise II - dozens of Iranian ballistic missiles hit Israel

[ParthianLord]

It is claimed on Israeli media that the US is trying to negotiate a "ceasefire" and Israel offered to cancel its "retaliation" if Iran agrees on it.

(source: Channel 12 TV , Channel 9 radio )


we heard similar news about "Gaza ceasefire" before though. (failed)

 

[Persian Gulf]

It is claimed on Israeli media that the US is trying to negotiate a "ceasefire" and Israel offered to cancel its "retaliation" if Iran agrees on it.

(source: Channel 12 TV , Channel 9 radio )


we heard similar news about "Gaza ceasefire" before though. (failed)

Israel is not interested in peace

 

[LeonBlack08]

This is an additional low key win for the Iran government through this operation in my opinion. The retaliation on Israel earned some bonus points for the Iranian societal unity.

 

[jauk]

It is claimed on Israeli media that the US is trying to negotiate a "ceasefire" and Israel offered to cancel its "retaliation" if Iran agrees on it.

(source: Channel 12 TV , Channel 9 radio )


we heard similar news about "Gaza ceasefire" before though. (failed)

Zionia is cornered. Peace is counterproductive. Zionia’s in ‘if not us then nobody else’ mode.

 

[jauk]

View attachment 70933

This is an additional low key win for the Iran government through this operation in my opinion. The retaliation on Israel earned some bonus points for the Iranian societal unity.

It’s not ’low key’. If you follow international channels Iran has tremendous support.

 

[ParthianLord]

It’s not ’low key’. If you follow international channels Iran has tremendous support.

lowkey is funny

actually billions of people around the world, West and East , got happy seeing iranian missiles land on israel lol

without exaggeration it was perhaps one of most cheered on military attacks in human history.

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[Tamerlane]

I think that it would be best to assume the worst case scenario and be prepared for a massive joint US-Israeli attack. However, it is also possible that the US may force Israel to do a token attack, like last time.

Scoop: White House loses trust in Israeli government as Middle East spirals​

The Biden administration has in recent weeks grown increasingly distrustful of what the Israeli government says about its military and diplomatic plans in the multi-front war it is fighting, four U.S. officials told Axios.

Why it matters: The worsening trust crisis is magnified by Israel's planned retaliation against Iran for its massive missile attack, which requires coordination with the U.S. in case Iran responds.

• The Biden administration isn't opposed to Israel responding to the Iranian attack last week but wants it to be measured, U.S. officials said.
• "Our trust of the Israelis is very low right now and for a good reason," one U.S. official said.

Behind the scenes: Two U.S. officials told Axios that during a call on Friday White House national security adviser Jake Sullivan told Israel's minister for strategic affairs Ron Dermer that the U.S. expects "clarity and transparency" from Israel about its plans to retaliate against Iran because it will have implications for U.S. forces and interests in the region.

• Sullivan was signaling that if the U.S. doesn't know what the Israelis are planning to do, it wouldn't automatically be on board to help defeat another Iranian missile attack against Israel, one official said.
• The U.S. officials admit that the U.S. would very likely help Israel defend itself regardless.
• The officials said Dermer stressed that Israel wants to coordinate with the U.S., but they added that the Biden administration questions how much it can trust that to be the case.
• Another U.S. official said the discussions with the Israeli government regarding Iran have been constructive.
• The White House declined to comment. The Israeli Embassy in Washington, DC didn't respond to a request for comment.

Driving the news: U.S. officials say the Biden administration has been surprised several times recently by Israeli military or intelligence operations.

• In some cases, the U.S. wasn't consulted or notified in advance. Or, it was given a heads up as Israeli jets were already on their way to conduct an airstrike somewhere in the Middle East.
• The Israelis didn't tell the Biden administration in advance about the dramatic move to assassinate Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh in Tehran.
• Moreover, it took place several days after Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told President Biden in the Oval Office that he was going to take steps to make progress toward a deal with Hamas to release the hostages they are holding and establish a ceasefire in Gaza.

The U.S. was also in the dark about Israel's plans to remotely detonate pagers and walkie-talkies used by Hezbollah members in Lebanon and the assassination of the militia's leader Hassan Nasrallah in Beirut.

• U.S. officials said Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin was fuming when his Israeli counterpart Yoav Gallant told him about the Nasrallah assassination minutes before the Israeli jets dropped their bombs over Beirut.
• Austin saw it as a breach of trust by Gallant because the late notification didn't allow the Pentagon to take measures to protect U.S. forces in the region, U.S. officials said.
• Israeli officials said Gallant told Austin he was ordered by Netanyahu not to notify the U.S. in advance.

Another case that fueled distrust and suspicion in the White House was Netanyahu's flip-flop about the U.S.-led ceasefire initiative in Lebanon.

• Biden announced the initiative after his advisers understood from Netanyahu and Dermer that Israel was on board, only to have the Israelis backtrack.
• A senior Israeli official told Axios Netanyahu didn't backtrack on what he told the U.S. and claimed the reason for what happened was a misunderstandings between the parties.
• "We understood Biden's call for ceasefire was a beginning of a process and not something immediate. There was a mix up but we set the record straight," the Israeli official said.

The latest: In recent days, the Biden administration raised questions with Israel about an order by Israel Defense Forces for Palestinian civilians in northern Gaza to evacuate south.

• U.S. officials said they are concerned this is a preparation for an Israeli siege on northern Gaza and that the Palestinians who leave won't be able to come back.
• The Biden administration told the Israelis such a move would be a violation of international law and of U.S. laws, U.S. officials said.
• U.S. officials said the Israelis told them they don't intend to permanently displace Palestinians from northern Gaza or impose a siege on the area and that it was a temporary IDF operation.
• But U.S. officials told Axios they don't know if they believe the Israelis. "They tell us what we want to hear — the problem is lack of trust," one U.S. official said.

What to watch: CENTCOM commander Gen. Michael Kurilla visited Israel on Saturday and Sunday and met with IDF chief of staff Gen. Herzi Halevi and Gallant to be briefed about Israel's plans for a response against Iran.

• Gallant told Austin in a phone call on Sunday that Israel hasn't made a final decision about the timing and the scope of its retaliation against Iran, a U.S. official said.
• The Israeli defense minister will arrive in Washington on Wednesday for a 24-hour visit and is expected to meet Austin and Sullivan to coordinate and discuss the plans for a potential Israeli strike on Iran.
• "The Biden administration understands we are a sovereign country, but they want to give their input. We are going to respond to the Iranian attack. There is no question about it. But we will not do it in a way that will start an all-out war with Iran," a senior Israeli official said.

https://www.axios.com/2024/10/08/us-israel-war-iran-gaza-lebanon

 

[BHAN85]

Hurricane Milton - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Today Hurricane Milton will hit Florida.

Tampa, Florida is the HQ of CENTCOM.

CENTCOM COALITION

So I guess Israel will have a window of opportunity to do naughty things in Middle East with less restraint and less USA supervision and monitoring.

 

[LeonBlack08]

It’s not ’low key’. If you follow international channels Iran has tremendous support.

Of course they have overwhelming international support amongst Sunnis, but I am not talking about global Sunni support.

The fact that Sunni clerics within Iran is openly showing support is good news for Iranian national unity. Because Irani Sunnis are one of the ways Zionists have in the past tried to cause instability in Iran. It is important more than ever Iran remains united and strong in the coming days.

 

[Oscar]

I have answered the question in other posts.

Everything does need to be backed up by the Qur'an and Sunnah. But the Qur'an and sunnah are vast. They provide for general guidelines as well as specific guidelines for specific scenarios. The ulama throughout the centuries wrote these guidelines in light of Qur'an and sunnah. There is a whole Fiqh of Jihad. I am not going to post such things on a forum as Muslims are under the microscope and readily victimized for any opinion regarding fighting back against the zio-christian alliance. You may do some investigation and reading of your own. Kitab Al Jihad is a search term to be used to start the research. I won't be responding to any further post on this for obvious reasons, sorry.

This seems to be shooting tangents -
If you cannot back it up with Quran and Sunnah then it is Biddat.
Whether Fiqh or not - it has to be derived from the Quran first, backed up by relevant Sahih Hadiath.

Offering victim excuses is irrelevant to the law on affairs.

There are 3 variants of the Kitab al Jihad
Of which Muwatta is the oldest

Imam Malik, Imam Shafi and Imam Abu Hanifa in each of the Kitab al Jihad state:

Surah Baqarah
190 “Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress. Indeed Allah does not like transgressions”

Muwatta book 21: “Do not kill women or children or an aged,infirm person. Do not cut down fruit bearing trees. Do not destroy an uninhabited place “

Even if civilians are being used as human shields the guidelines are to take EVERY measure to prevent loss to them.

Kitab al Kharaj - by Imam Abu Yusuf
“Hazrat Umar (RA) would specifically offer guidance to not harm civilians”

Al-Kafi , Volume 5
Attributed to Hazrat Ali “Fear god in the matter of the people and of the land you have been assigned to. Do not kill women or children, and do not destroy synagogues or churches”

So unless you can bring a direct QUOTE - please do not slither away by asking everyone else to research but arguing from a position equal to these scholars because you haven’t provided an iota of jurisprudence backup other than what are your own principles and character as a human being wanting to kill civilians.

Either admit that or stop hiding behind “I am a scholar or mufti or expert”


On that note - Iran has truly given a response befitting of Muslims even if it’s effectiveness was questioned - they’ve focused on military targets as much as possible and avoided all places where there would be excessive civilians present

 

[Mehdipersian]

This seems to be shooting tangents -
If you cannot back it up with Quran and Sunnah then it is Biddat.
Whether Fiqh or not - it has to be derived from the Quran first, backed up by relevant Sahih Hadiath.

Offering victim excuses is irrelevant to the law on affairs.

There are 3 variants of the Kitab al Jihad
Of which Muwatta is the oldest

Imam Malik, Imam Shafi and Imam Abu Hanifa in each of the Kitab al Jihad state:

Surah Baqarah
190 “Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress. Indeed Allah does not like transgressions”

Muwatta book 21: “Do not kill women or children or an aged,infirm person. Do not cut down fruit bearing trees. Do not destroy an uninhabited place “

Even if civilians are being used as human shields the guidelines are to take EVERY measure to prevent loss to them.

Kitab al Kharaj - by Imam Abu Yusuf
“Hazrat Umar (RA) would specifically offer guidance to not harm civilians”

Al-Kafi , Volume 5
Attributed to Hazrat Ali “Fear god in the matter of the people and of the land you have been assigned to. Do not kill women or children, and do not destroy synagogues or churches”

So unless you can bring a direct QUOTE - please do not slither away by asking everyone else to research but arguing from a position equal to these scholars because you haven’t provided an iota of jurisprudence backup other than what are your own principles and character as a human being wanting to kill civilians.

Either admit that or stop hiding behind “I am a scholar or mufti or expert”


On that note - Iran has truly given a response befitting of Muslims even if it’s effectiveness was questioned - they’ve focused on military targets as much as possible and avoided all places where there would be excessive civilians present

What you say about normal wars is correct.

But because Jews have occupied the land of Muslims and are committing genocide and killing, Islam allows Muslims to retaliate in kind.

 

[Bengal71]

Whether Fiqh or not - it has to be derived from the Quran first, backed up by relevant Sahih Hadiath.

Fiqh is backed up by the Quran and sunnah.

Either admit that or stop hiding behind “I am a scholar or mufti or expert”

I have not claimed to be a mufti or expert. I have said the fiqh of Jihad are written by the mufti/ulama.

So unless you can bring a direct QUOTE - please do not slither away by asking everyone else to research but arguing from a position equal to these scholars because you haven’t provided an iota of jurisprudence backup other than what are your own principles and character as a human being wanting to kill civilians.

I am not "slithering away". Your ignorance of situations where muslim civilians are killed and the permissible response of muslim armies is not my burden. It's your burden to learn the rules of Jihad. I have indicated towards the sources.

 

[Oscar]

What you say about normal wars is correct.

But because Jews have occupied the land of Muslims and are committing genocide and killing, Islam allows Muslims to retaliate in kind.

Where does it allow it - please quote a fiqh , Hadiath

ANYTHING!!

The whole idea is that muslims will always strike to be morally superior and be examples of Ashraf ul Makhlooq. You will not rape a 5 year old girl even if yours was!

 

[Oscar]

Fiqh is backed up by the Quran and sunnah.


I have not claimed to be a mufti or expert. I have said the fiqh of Jihad are written by the mufti/ulama.



I am not "slithering away". Your ignorance of situations where muslim civilians are killed and the permissible response of muslim armies is not my burden. It's your burden to learn the rules of Jihad. I have indicated towards the sources.

You have indicated nothing other than your personal bias and cant even offer references to the sources you claim.

Let’s agree to disagree that you using Fiqh in any of your statements

 

[Bengal71]

What you say about normal wars is correct.

But because Jews have occupied the land of Muslims and are committing genocide and killing, Islam allows Muslims to retaliate in kind.

He and the rest are talking about normal circumstances where the Muslim armies meet the enemy armies and the battle is restricted among the combatants (i.e., between the warriors only).

The situation here with Israel is specific whereby the enemy relies on mass killing of Muslim civilians as a tool to create fear and as a deterrent. In these situations, the fiqh of jihad allows for the Muslims to target the civilians of the enemy, otherwise the enemy armies will have an upper hand and Muslims will be greatly disadvantaged and will likely lead to a defeat.

There is a trend among Muslims in recent times to propagate Islam as all lovey dovey, similar to the concept of turning the other cheek as in Christianity. This has been propagated by the ulama post 9/11 in an effort to reduce hatred against the Muslims, Islam was propagated as ALL PEACE and no fighting at all. Even the very concept of jihad has been watered down by saying Jihad is the jiad of nafs. People who are quoting some ayah and ahadith trying to prove they know the essence of Islam and it's all peace all the way no matter what the enemy does to us, these people are those who didn't dive into the subject.

General guideline:

It is narrated by Ibn 'Umar that a woman was found killed in one of these battles; so the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) forbade the killing of women and children.

Specific:
It is reported on the authority of Sa'b b. Jaththama that the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him), when asked about the women and children of the polytheists being killed during the night raid, said: They are from them.

Above is an example only, there is far more.


@Oscar