Bengal71
Trusted Member
I am happy to agree to disagree. If you go ahead and read up on specific ruling on permissibility of killing civilians when enemy armies kill Muslim civilians, that will be good.
Operation True Promise II - dozens of Iranian ballistic missiles hit Israel
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I am happy to agree to disagree. If you go ahead and read up on specific ruling on permissibility of killing civilians when enemy armies kill Muslim civilians, that will be good.
Oscar
Moderator
Once again - all of it is IRRELEVANT personal opinion and ideals that have no ground in Fiqh.
Just feathers to make a crow to try and present an opinion by you.
The ONLY actual “proof” is that last example - please bring more if you expect to be taken seriously other than just out for personal characteristics blood which is fine - but don’t use Islam as the tissue paper to wipe your bloodlust.
When the Prophet (peace be upon him) said, “They are from them,” it referred to the unintentional harm to women and children during such raids, not permission to target them intentionally.
Imam Nawawi (in his book Sharj Sahih Muslim) explained that this refers to accidental harm in the chaos of night raids, not deliberate targeting of women and children, which remains forbidden.
In Fath al-Bari, Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani states that Islamic rules of warfare forbid intentional harm to non-combatants - but acknowledges that unintended casualties in military operations can occur.
Al-Shawkaani (in Nayl al-Awtar) confirms that while the hadith recognizes collateral damage, it upholds the principle that non-combatants should not be deliberately targeted.
That is referenced with Scholars who do not share your interpretation - who did you reference?
Oscar
Moderator
I already have and provided more proof than you have bothered to - so the argument is available for all those to see with reference
Bengal71
Trusted Member
Alright.
Consider the scenario:
Enemy army relies on mass killing of muslim civilians to deter muslims from fighting, uses it as a deterrent. What's the ruling for muslim army in regards to attacking enemy civilians in the way? According to you, Muslims should not attack enemy civilians even though the enemy army can't be deterred and will lead to a defeat?
Mehdipersian
Trusted Member
فَمَنِ اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ فَاعْتَدُوا عَلَيْهِ بِمِثْلِ مَا اعْتَدَى عَلَيْكُمْ
بقره/ 178
So should anyone aggress against you, assail him in the manner he assailed you, and be wary of Allah, and know that Allah is with the Godwary
Bengal71
Trusted Member
There is ruling about this specific scenario where the enemy deliberately kills mass muslim civilians as a tactic of war and in this scenario whether Muslim armies are permitted to do the same or not, it's permissible in the specific scenario. I had the book saved in my PC, deleted all Jihadi books and videos because of the reason I live in the west. It's the reason I don't want to talk about it and post in an online forum. It's all peace and everything is peaceful in Islam is easy to post online which other users are doing.
Mehdipersian
Trusted Member
Yes, you are right, but in the tafsir 194 of Surah Al-Baqarah of the Qur'an, it is said that you should observe ethics in war as much as possible.
Bengal71
Trusted Member
General ruling, yes. Not when the enemy uses mass killing of muslims as a tactic of war. I am trying to find the fatawa of classical scholars. I had many of them but I deleted.
Garcia Sea
Registered Member
The resistance in the Middle East is too concerned with a clean fight.
When Saudi Arabia invaded Yemen and spent the day indiscriminately bombing the country, the Yemenis only launched pinpoint counterattacks on refineries and bases, with little effect.
On the other hand, the Taliban, who had no qualms about suicide bombings and bombings of their own civilians, won the war.
Such is the nature of war, unfortunately.
When Saudi Arabia invaded Yemen and spent the day indiscriminately bombing the country, the Yemenis only launched pinpoint counterattacks on refineries and bases, with little effect.
On the other hand, the Taliban, who had no qualms about suicide bombings and bombings of their own civilians, won the war.
Such is the nature of war, unfortunately.
hasn2009
Registered Member
Question is, can we consider Israeli settlers civilians? I mean they stubbornly stole the land of Palestinians and are still occupying it.
For example, if someone enters your house, kill your family, forcefully expels you out and start living there, what would be the ruling then?
Bengal71
Trusted Member
I have found something although I was trying to download the Siyarul Kabir of Imam Muhammad Ibn Hasan al-Shaibani, could not download it.
I have however found detailed response from the following website that quotes numerous scholars, it's unfortunately in Bangla. The page can be fully translated by google.
Here is the translated page:
মুসলিমদের সাথে যুদ্ধরত দেশসমূহের জনসাধারণকে হামলার লক্ষ্যবস্তু বানানোর বিধান! | দারুল ইলম
www-darulilm-org.translate.goog
@hasn2009 @Oscar
That's the end of it. God knows I am now being watched by the ASIO in Australia or not.
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hasn2009
Registered Member
Khamenie himself is a faqih/jurist/mufti and he said al-aqsa flood was legal. So i guess its pretty clear for Iranians and their followersI have sound something although I was trying to downlowd the Siyarul Kabir of Imam Muhammad Ibn Hasan al-Shaibani, could not download it.
I have however found detailed response from the following website that quotes numerous scholars, it's unfortunately in Bangla. The page can be fully translated by google.
Here is the translated page:
মুসলিমদের সাথে যুদ্ধরত দেশসমূহের জনসাধারণকে হামলার লক্ষ্যবস্তু বানানোর বিধান! | দারুল ইলম
@hasn2009 @Oscar
That's the end of it. God knows I am now being watched by the ASIO in Australia or not.
Bengal71
Trusted Member
Khamenie himself is a faqih/jurist/mufti and he said al-aqsa flood was legal. So i guess its pretty clear for Iranians and their followers
Not for Iranians only, it's clear and well understood among the classical ulama of Shia and Sunni both. Any prohibition that hinders the Jihad and hinders Muslims from victory is no prohibition at all.
Also Khamieni knows it's permissible to indiscriminately bombard Israeli population centers because the Israelis have done so as a tool/tactic of war against Muslims. They haven't done it so far because of tactical/strategic reasons. If it warrants, Iran will target civilian centers exactly like Israelis did and they will not be sinful for that.
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Mehdipersian
Trusted Member
According to Imam Khamenei's fatwa, there are no civilians in Israel. Everyone who lives in Israel is part of the Israeli army to occupy Muslim lands.
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