HAL LCA Tejas: Updates, News & Discussions

[MirageBlue]

We cannot ignore the Costs of upgrades

However the Engine Technology issue is still an open ended question

Now in the short term all our hopes are on Su 30 upgrades and Tejas MK 1A

Su-30 upgrades are not really short term.

 

[MirageBlue]

Total BS ... no-one and especially not China is interested in conquering or to defeat India! There is no need and no interest. This is all a completely inflated self-image, as if India would be important or interesting to others (aka here China)!
Yes, China annoys, provokes and keeps you busy, but there is de facto no interest in Indian land ... and all the border skirmishes are just an accessory.

Or do you really think there are somewhere hidden at secret bases several much more advanced fighter squadrons already ready for action?

Goes to show just how little you really know about the China India relationship.

 

[MirageBlue]

The point is, that all makes no sense! In Germany we have a saying: Ihr tanzt auf zu vielen Hochzeiten gleichzeitig! und macht damit im Sinne alles, aber nichts richtig!

roughly translated as: You are dancing on too many weddings aka you are trying to do too many things at once! And in doing so, you are doing everything but nothing right!

The point is just to again roughly summarise: The IAF has NOW a dramatic shortage in fighters, already NOW a downfall in Squadrons and this situation will even more dramatically increase in the upcoming years!

Therefore the IAF/India has the intention to order or already ordered and the following projects in the making:

- Tejas Mk.1A .... but issues with a too limited production capacity and the engine issue!
- Tejas Mk.2 ... again delayed until at best 2026 for roll-out ... so when will it be ready for service?
- Rafale / maybe 2nd Batch / for IN: ... negotiations on negotiations but again a discussion on wet-dreams about indigenous radar, indigenous weapons, maybe even indigenous engine in XX years and local production!?
- MRFA: still not decided on a type since again too much discussion on the same wet-dreams like the Rafale deal
- Su-30MKI-PLUS: ... now you are talking about engines and indigenous systems and no replacement in sight!
- AMCA: until today more a dream for in about a decade at best if ever!

- everything else is vaporware

So, even if you decide on a MRMF type today, when will it be ready? When will a proposed factory in India be ready ... in summary TOO LATE!
Even if you decide on additional Rafales today, when will it be ready? ... Dassault has an order backlog for years and IF, when will a proposed factory in India be ready ... in summary even more TOO LATE!

And then there are still stupid jokes, "but the PLAN will surely have its own J-35 not ready within the next three years!

In three years, you maybe haven't even still made a decision on a type ... in three years, surely no factory is ready ! So when do you think to get these then even older types??

That's what I mean with IT ALL MAKES NO SENSE!

So much tripe and so much ranting with such confused text! That too after I asked you a simple question, to clarify what you meant by "no one will be ready to set up an assembly line in India".

If Dassault signs a contract, it is up to Dassault and it's Indian partner/s to fulfill the contract. Plain and simple. Not sure what you'd call that in your German. It would be Dassault's responsibility to find a partner and to set up an assembly line in India with ToT (which would be signed as per the contract since it is a mandatory aspect) while ensuring that the first 18 Rafales are delivered from their Merignac assembly line within 36 months of contract signature.

If they can't, they won't be contesting the MRFA. And they won't be setting up a new Dassault run MRO in India for just 36 + 26 Rafales and 50 odd Mirages.

Eric Trappier is on record that Dassault is still looking to take on orders. If they don't, they'll end up paying penalties.

Most likely if a MRFA deal is signed in the next 2 years, French Air Force deliveries will be delayed and export deliveries will be made. For e.g. this year 6 Rafale F4s were delivered to the French AF, but if needed and if the French Govt had gotten involved, those could've been delivered to an export nation.

The French AF ordered 42 Rafales to be delivered between 2027 and 2032. If the French Govt so decides, their deliveries to the French Air Force can be postponed to accommodate an export customer. Happens all the time.

For e.g. when the Polish AF received FA-50GF (Gap Fillers) which were actually TA-50s for the ROKAF but instead were diverted to Poland due to an emergency requirement.

 

[Michael]

So much tripe and so much ranting with such confused text! That too after I asked you a simple question, to clarify what you meant by "no one will be ready to set up an assembly line in India".

If Dassault signs a contract, it is up to Dassault and it's Indian partner/s to fulfill the contract. Plain and simple. Not sure what you'd call that in your German. It would be Dassault's responsibility to find a partner and to set up an assembly line in India with ToT (which would be signed as per the contract since it is a mandatory aspect) while ensuring that the first 18 Rafales are delivered from their Merignac assembly line within 36 months of contract signature.

If they can't, they won't be contesting the MRFA. And they won't be setting up a new Dassault run MRO in India for just 36 + 26 Rafales and 50 odd Mirages.

Eric Trappier is on record that Dassault is still looking to take on orders. If they don't, they'll end up paying penalties.

Most likely if a MRFA deal is signed in the next 2 years, French Air Force deliveries will be delayed and export deliveries will be made. For e.g. this year 6 Rafale F4s were delivered to the French AF, but if needed and if the French Govt had gotten involved, those could've been delivered to an export nation.

The French AF ordered 42 Rafales to be delivered between 2027 and 2032. If the French Govt so decides, their deliveries to the French Air Force can be postponed to accommodate an export customer. Happens all the time.

For e.g. when the Polish AF received FA-50GF (Gap Fillers) which were actually TA-50s for the ROKAF but instead were diverted to Poland due to an emergency requirement.

You still use “if”, “seek”, “may”, “soon” a lot, “could” ...... Fuzzy words with a future orientation.

Let us talk about the present:

Dassault's Rafale fighter supply chain has hit a roadblock that remains unresolved. Current production is 2 units/month, with plans to reach 3 units/month by the end of this year. The total number of orders currently accumulated for the Rafale is close to 500 units. Manufacturing across Europe has been greatly affected by the general environment. It is impossible to determine when Dassault will be able to resolve the supply chain issues.

Even now that Dassault has a ToT deal with India, the supply chain issue remains. At least this issue is not resolved yet. Even if the supply chain issue is resolved at some point in the future, it will prioritize satisfying its own factories over the ToT JV factories. It will have to prioritize its own orders that have already come in.

India will find it difficult to deliver Rafale fighters quickly even if it buys them outright, let alone assemble them itself in ToT mode.

My advice to India on a purely business strategy:
Terminate all contracts with Dassault first and further squeeze Dassault's viability through India's international influence. Currently Dassault has a lot of orders but it is difficult to deliver them on time and convert them into cash. A collective withdrawal of orders at the right time could lead it to a serious existential crisis.
When Dassault is in an existential crisis, India will then step in and negotiate with Dassault to buy the production line and all the technology at an extremely favorable price. Under normal circumstances, Dassault will not sell its core technology, but the situation will change in an existential crisis.

 

[Circadian Rhythm]

You still use “if”, “seek”, “may”, “soon” a lot, “could” ...... Fuzzy words with a future orientation.

Let us talk about the present:

Dassault's Rafale fighter supply chain has hit a roadblock that remains unresolved. Current production is 2 units/month, with plans to reach 3 units/month by the end of this year. The total number of orders currently accumulated for the Rafale is close to 500 units. Manufacturing across Europe has been greatly affected by the general environment. It is impossible to determine when Dassault will be able to resolve the supply chain issues.

Even now that Dassault has a ToT deal with India, the supply chain issue remains. At least this issue is not resolved yet. Even if the supply chain issue is resolved at some point in the future, it will prioritize satisfying its own factories over the ToT JV factories. It will have to prioritize its own orders that have already come in.

India will find it difficult to deliver Rafale fighters quickly even if it buys them outright, let alone assemble them itself in ToT mode.

My advice to India on a purely business strategy:
Terminate all contracts with Dassault first and further squeeze Dassault's viability through India's international influence. Currently Dassault has a lot of orders but it is difficult to deliver them on time and convert them into cash. A collective withdrawal of orders at the right time could lead it to a serious existential crisis.
When Dassault is in an existential crisis, India will then step in and negotiate with Dassault to buy the production line and all the technology at an extremely favorable price. Under normal circumstances, Dassault will not sell its core technology, but the situation will change in an existential crisis.

Sorry ,
We don't want to take your Absurd Advice

 

[Deino]

Sorry ,
We don't want to take your Absurd Advice

That was to expected, instead You "prefer to live in lala-land, make unrealistic claims and hope some day, a miracle will happen"?

 

[Michael]

That was to expected, instead You "prefer to live in lala-land, make unrealistic claims and hope some day, a miracle will happen"?

Should I tell these cute Indian boys how China went from the Su-27 to the J16? LOL

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

Should I tell these cute Indian boys how China went from the Su-27 to the J16? LOL

Well, anything which bring knowledge to this forum is more than welcome and good to read and learn (Not necessary to have an Indian POV). Thanks in advance.

 

[Michael]

Well, anything which bring knowledge to this forum is more than welcome and good to read and learn (Not necessary to have an Indian POV). Thanks in advance.

Deino is an expert in Chinese weapons analysis. He knows the full story. He has written a book, Red Dragon 'Flankers': China's Prolific 'Flanker' Family. I don't know if he has the stories in his book. If you are interested, you can buy the book and check it out.
@Deino When can I see it? LOL

Thread 'Book Review: Red Dragon 'Flankers': China's Prolific 'Flanker' Family'

Jul 13, 2024

Book Review: Red Dragon 'Flankers': China's Prolific 'Flanker' Family​

Archives
by Andreas Rupprecht
Vienna: Harpia: 2022. Pp. 256. Illus., map, tables, appends, biblio., index. $64.95 paper. ISBN: 1950394107
China's Multirole Fighter Family
A country’s choices in high-end aerospace hardware are often more significant for signaling its security alignments than providing its warfighters with operational capabilities. Egypt signaled its mid-1950s embrace of the Soviet Union by procuring large numbers of jet combat aircraft, few of which survived the 1956 war, and marked its...

• Fatman17
• Replies: 3
• Forum: Chinese Defence Forum

• 

 

[Deino]

You can write An E mail to the Government of India

Along with your Real name , identity, and a list of Professional Achievements

They might appoint you as a Principal Scientific Advisor

That won't work since no-one wants to hear that, no-one in India's military-industrial complex is interested in changes since all get their fine share of income from this jungle or rules, connections and so on and even those in India who know what could and should be done are in fact either pushed out since any changes would harm this corrupt construct or it is politically not welcomed since it would show that India is in fact far from what India likes to portray itself (especially to its uninformed and uninterested masses) or leaving alone to abroad.

 

[Deino]

I wonder whats his deal a chinese living in germany?

Go and do your homework! I'm not a Chinese, I'm a regular German living and working in Germany, I only have a maybe special interest.

I make no secret out of who I am and what I do but I'm sure the relevant offices in India know me quite well since they have all my books directly ordered via the embassy.

 

[Circadian Rhythm]

That won't work since no-one wants to hear that, no-one in India's military-industrial complex is interested in changes since all get their fine share of income from this jungle or rules, connections and so on and even those in India who know what could and should be done are in fact either pushed out since any changes would harm this corrupt construct or it is politically not welcomed since it would show that India is in fact far from what India likes to portray itself (especially to its uninformed and uninterested masses) or leaving alone to abroad.

Your Intentions to Help India are very Noble

But the Thing is that your Advice is not reaching the Indian Government

They don't read this forum

And Neither your Twitter ID is followed by Indians.

 

[Deino]

Your Intentions to Help India are very Noble

But the Thing is that your Advice is not reaching the Indian Government

They don't read this forum

And Neither your Twitter ID is followed by Indians.

Well, I don't want to build up anything that doesn't exist and I'm fully aware that no one in India will listen to me, I'm simply too unimportant or even completely unimportant for that!
But I think exchanging ideas in forums - for me, actually just a hobby and fun - can perhaps contribute a little more sense of reality.

And even if nobody wants to believe it, I have nothing against India, quite the opposite, I rate Angad Singh for example (here at Telford in 2018) a very good friend ... I'm just bothered by these completely idiotic fan-boys (similar to those in the Pakistani, Turkish and Iranian sections)

 

[Tumba]

Go and do your homework! I'm not a Chinese, I'm a regular German living and working in Germany, I only have a maybe special interest.

I make no secret out of who I am and what I do but I'm sure the relevant offices in India know me quite well since they have all my books directly ordered via the embassy.

well I wont rate you an expert in Indian MIC, as most of it is still doesnt care about any PR at all most of the labs never bothered about sharing its iterations in public simply because they dont care as that is not their job so whatever comes out is if some journalist gets lucky, but big Indian private cos does have PR departments and all they do is assembly mostly the smaller partners directly work with Govt labs but they also dont bother with any PR at all.

So if you are purely doing internet search you will Never know whats going on.

If I say AMCA is going with good pace and targeting for Jan 2029 as first flight I assume your response will be purely based on whatever you find online which is not close to reality

 

[Deino]

...

If I say AMCA is going with good pace and targeting for Jan 2029 as first flight I assume your response will be purely based on whatever you find online which is not close to reality

No, a maiden flight for the AMCA for 2029 is realistic and indeed a lot is hidden, but you were making so much errors in your post - including calling me a Chinese - that you are simply not credible even more so since you ignore the issues and are keen in finding simple solutions to difficult problems, which is not possible.
As such, only since certain thinks are NOT reported to the public makes them not more likely.