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I can understand why.
Those aircraft are completely different to whatever IRIAF had. It is radically different to US F4/5/14 and also Su24/25/Mig29. Keep in mind that the nose cone it is so damn small than any possible good radar antenna would make it short range.

Modern Grifo 346/E/S can easily fit in Mirages Nose.

Grifo-346 provides a search/track range of arund 115/94 KM for a 1m2 target (F-18EF) and fits in an F-5 nosecone. Mirage has much more space then that.

If Pakistan really can´t export some JF17, they could export some ToT in any secret treaty, and Iran could pay them slowly even in cryptocurrencies. Via Pakistan arrived ECM equipments to IRIN, for example. Pakistan could export ToT for RD93 for example, data link equipment and ECM systems. Another could be PL15, but I don´t know if Pakistan assemblies this kind of long range missile. Those technologies can be easily integrated in iranian aerospace industries and very well applied in any bigger airframe.

Russians and Chinese are no fools that they won't know who is the end user of their Turbofans, Radars, Missiles, Avionics etc. They own the patents, they manufacture them. Foriegn assemblies are CKD's or LPs nothing beyond that. If Russians and Chinese are such reliable partners of Iran then why cant we get a package of MIG-31BM, SU-35S, J-16 from them directly?

The way conflicts are unfolding, light jets are of no use in Iranian geography, they can barely be "within IADS-CAP fighters". Even a MIG-29SMT is not sufficient. This is why I was urging users to stop talking about Kowsar in the same sentence with SU-35S. We need planes with high KE, the longest possible ranges, radar track ranges and Long-range BVRs like R-37 or Meteor. Something that can climb fast out of Kermanshah, Tabriz, Bushehr, Bandar Abbas quickly breaks out of IADS, tracks enemies at 200+ KM, fire BVR weapon at 150+ KM then run back into IADS again using some 65K lb wet thrust. IRIAF pilots chose SU-35S, they are no fools. SU-35S that we know on internet has weak radar but upgradations change everything and Russia has shown AESA radar for it.
 
The question is would they want to use the Rampage or the LORA equivalent?

Based on the statements it seems they want to make it very visual for Iran - call it “shock and awe” retaliation for what their population experienced.

But the key is the targets because that factors in both distance, terrain and type of assets needed.

ALBMs may not suffice to hit mountain bunkers facing a certain direction and you need to either have a more maneuvering cruise system that can come around to hit a target or use PGMs.

Petrochemical facilities are a different question and for that ALBMs are enough.

I don’t think QRAs will have an impact or anything IRIAF has will in such a scenario.

But I would not discard the constant news stream on decisions and measures and so on - these are now hollow and whatever their content have a purpose through their manipulation of media.

Without USAF/USN's e-jamming (likely) or kinetic intervention (unlikely), Israeli jets can't come close or cross into Iranian skies to deliver PGMs, and if they do by refueling, many will be shot down by IADS. When IRIAF was being budget strangled, Iranian IADS was being built at rapid pace so atleast they can guard the skies or make it difficult for enemy to go without paying a price.

https://defencepk.com/forums/thread...sets-of-iran-current-and-possibilities.14225/

Even with refueling, to deliver a package of 2000 lbs PGMS (MK-84), the jets will then have to land in UAE/KSA which is extremely unlikely. Knowing Israelis they won't risk it, so ALBMs or SOWs from distance do seem like the right choice where US directs e-warfare from distance while Israel does a "Dog and Pony" show strike at some base of missile factory just like what Iran did.

Iran even with 400 x SU-35S and S-400s spread around the entire geography can not stop it!

............ But wars are strategic in nature like a game of chess. Iran basically demonstrated that it can violate the Israeli airspace and target anything inside Israel upon will, all those expensive air defense layers will not be any help. My own assumption is that Iranian strike was aimed to the strategic goal of "demonstration" of capability more than causing actual damage, a signal of extreme capability (180 modern RVs, HGVs) but also of "we did not cause damage, we control the escalation ladder". The paralysis we are seeing in Israeli decision-making is because of this, if they cause actual damage to Iranian nuclear facilities or oil infrastructure then they are the ones who are themselves enabling Iran to climb up the ladder of escalation by:

(a) Testing nuclear devices in some pre-prepared read to trigger tunnel systems in the south or east, even right now it has enough enriched WGU to make roughly ~20 small to mid-tier yield fission devices and that's what IAEA knows officially. Clergy's "Taqiyeh" capabilities can not be underestimated. States do that. Problems for Israel come later though, the moment Iran announces tests, Egypt, Turkey, Saudis, UAE will be paying any amount for the "off the shelf" weapons or may work towards developing them for their safety. Suddenly Israel is surrounded by nuclear-armed states that it won't be able to influence any longer. Strategically speaking, this is a scary and unacceptable scenario for Israel which authors often point to as the deterrent Iran created in 2000s, triggering the chain "nuclearization" of the entire middle-east.

(b) What stops Iran from again doing the same kind of strike at Israel, this time with stronger warheads on HGVs and MaRVS, aimed at ports, industrial sites, oil terminals, power stations, airports etc ? Yes Israel will again retaliate with ALBM or SOWs or whatever but now that image of "invincibility" is thrashed to pieces. Now Israel is the country that "gets it" every few months by Iran from distance.

In short, Iranian defence against Israel is retaliation at strategic levels, thats where it can win which is more important than anything else.
 
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J-10A/B was offered but Iranian pilots were more interested in larger ranged SU-35S and SU-30SM from Russia. Russians initially were reluctant to even put SU-35S on the table and instead were offering SU-27K which is SU-35S's original designation (older built airframe). Iran kept on pressing for SU-35S which was finally agreed during General Bagheri's visit to Moscow where he met with Shoigu and Putin in person. This time they refused to give R-37 and Khibiny ECM pods without which SU-35S is useless for Iran because it wont be able to replace F-14A/AM.

Who told you Iranian pilots were "more interested" in SU-30s/SU-35 and when J-10A/B was offered to Iran? Do you sources to back your claims? 15 years ago china wasn't that much powerful to offend the US. Today, China may even be able to do it due to its dominance in economy.

Secondly, airforces have to be made balanced. You can't induct super heavy SU-35s in large numbers. That's where modern light-weight & medium weight single engine aircrafts come to fill up more roles. Even the super powers like USA and China have F-16s and J-10Cs.

BTW, Russian avionics is shit. During last encounter, indian commentator pressed Indian chief that why SU-30s were unable to shoot back at Pakistani F-16s, answer was SU-30s never got a lock on their screens. However, chinese are building the most advance variants with latest AESA radars.

Old article, how chinese jets are surpassing Russian counterparts: https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebast...est-jets-are-surpassing-russias-top-fighters/
 
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Who told you Iranian pilots were "more interested" in SU-35s and when J-10A/B was offered to Iran? Do you sources to back your claims? 15 years ago china wasn't that much powerful to offend the US. Today, China may even be able to do it due to its dominance in economy.

I follow a journalist (turned propaganda stooge) named Babak Taghvaee, the news of SU-35S, Yak-130 was broken by him as well when deal was just signed (Gen. Bagheri was in Moscow). Despite his pro-zion ramblings on internet, he always has the deep inside scoop about IRIAF. You can search his twitter account, the entire J-10 story is there. He also writes for almost every aviation magazine on earth but these days he is a total stooge, not a journalist anymore.

Secondly, airforces have to be made balanced. You can't induct super heavy SU-35s in large numbers. That's where modern light-weight & medium weight single engine aircrafts come to fill up more roles. Even the super powers like USA and China have F-16s and J-10Cs.

US has not made a light fighter for last 50 years ! F-16 is almost 50 years old design now. F-15, F-18, F-35, F-22 ... are not light fighters. Chinese themselves are building large Flankers, J-20/31 etc.

Besides who gives a crap what others are doing, Iran needs to defend the periphery of its IADS and for that it needs long ranged interception capabilities, we are a large geography surrounded by countries that can be vulnerable zones for us considering some are war-torn states with no effective control over their airspaces. I gave Iraqi scenario above.

BTW, Sukhois with russian tech are shit. During last encounter, indian commentator pressed Indian chief that why SU-30s were unable to shoot back at Pakistani F-16s, answer was SU-30s never go a lock on their screens. However, chinese are building the most advance variants with latest AESA radars.

Old article, how chinese jets are surpassing Russian counterparts: https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebast...est-jets-are-surpassing-russias-top-fighters/

Yet Russians, Chinese, Indians, Iranians and dozen others are inducting the Flankers.

I am not a fan of this plane either and thats becasue of its weak avionics (its IRBIS-E is a PESA)but:

(a) we dont have a choice.
(b) We need its K.E more than anything.
 
Modern Grifo 346/E/S can easily fit in Mirages Nose.

Grifo-346 provides a search/track range of arund 115/94 KM for a 1m2 target (F-18EF) and fits in an F-5 nosecone. Mirage has much more space then that.
Does this hold relevance, or was it merely something put 'out there'?

Piet

 
Who told you Iranian pilots were "more interested" in SU-30s/SU-35 and when J-10A/B was offered to Iran? Do you sources to back your claims? 15 years ago china wasn't that much powerful to offend the US. Today, China may even be able to do it due to its dominance in economy.

Secondly, airforces have to be made balanced. You can't induct super heavy SU-35s in large numbers. That's where modern light-weight & medium weight single engine aircrafts come to fill up more roles. Even the super powers like USA and China have F-16s and J-10Cs.

BTW, Russian avionics is shit. During last encounter, indian commentator pressed Indian chief that why SU-30s were unable to shoot back at Pakistani F-16s, answer was SU-30s never got a lock on their screens. However, chinese are building the most advance variants with latest AESA radars.

Old article, how chinese jets are surpassing Russian counterparts: https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebast...est-jets-are-surpassing-russias-top-fighters/

Agree. Additionally, Iran as part of reviewing its airforces, will need to review the distribution of its airfields, potentially build new more capable ones in new locations to give it the defence capabilities it needs and the balance between 'heavies' and light weight fighters.

Iran needs a fundamental rethink and replan of its airforce structure. Simply hanging onto we do have a airfield here, or there and therefore we need this type of aircraft doesn't make sense when you compare how expensive fighter jets are, compared to tarmac..

Irans airforce has weithered away because it has not kept pace with developments in the region as they have overly relied on just ballistic missiles. Ballistic missiles, while capable of penetrating airspaces, have so far proven to be limited in their ability to cause meaningful damage. They are fantastic for strategic threats like deploying a nuke, or other large area weapons, but less useful for taking out key buildings/radars/sam systems due to their CEP.
 
Does this hold relevance, or was it merely something put 'out there'?

Piet

Plan existed but budget cuts and missile focus did not let it happen.

Iran has no use of these 22 airframes, some are not even that much used so I believe they should be upgraded and sent back to Iraqi AF.
 
Plan existed but budget cuts and missile focus did not let it happen.

Iran has no use of these 22 airframes, some are not even that much used so I believe they should be upgraded and sent back to Iraqi AF.
Thank you

Piet
 
Upgraded S-200 test most likely.

Bavar-373, Khordads, S-300-PMU2 did not exist at that time.
Scary.

Regarding an upgraded S-200, I know that they have a stretched one that is rolled out now and then, in public.

I want to address this (+ 2 others) in your - AIDS Assets of Iran - thread rather.

Piet
 
Scary.

Regarding an upgraded S-200, I know that they have a stretched one that is rolled out now and then, in public.

I dont follow IADS developments on Satellite imagery but I think S-200 is phased out.
 
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