PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[guangdongt]

I know these things bro but supercruise engine has own limitations because of excess thrust for long period of time it's more maintenance prone and engine life and MTBO (meantime between overhaul) is shorter than traditional engines

As for breaking the lock and IR and radar guided AAMs you can't break the lock of SAMs and AAMs relying only on supercruising speed and maneuverability/agility

Main weapon to breaking the lock from SAMs and AAMs are EW/ECM/ECCM and ESM not supercruising speed and maneuverability

Supersonic cruise is based on the idea of rapid breakthrough. When you go deep into the battlefield, relying too much on other electronic systems for support is a huge question mark. The enemy's air defense support system is very dense, which requires your fighter jets to be as perfect as possible. In the past twenty years, there have not been two military countries in the world that are both highly developed in the field of electronic information engaging in air combat with each other. In addition, the existence of various weapons outside the defense zone and the idea of future unmanned aerial vehicles to explore the battlefield for manned fighter jets are all based on complex electronic operation interference environments.

 

[Irfan Usmani 1977]

Supersonic cruise is based on the idea of rapid breakthrough. When you go deep into the battlefield, relying too much on other electronic systems for support is a huge question mark. The enemy's air defense support system is very dense, which requires your fighter jets to be as perfect as possible. In the past twenty years, there have not been two military countries in the world that are both highly developed in the field of electronic information engaging in air combat with each other. In addition, the existence of various weapons outside the defense zone and the idea of future unmanned aerial vehicles to explore the battlefield for manned fighter jets are all based on complex electronic operation interference environments.

Fighter jets are not come alone but in packages often along with specialized platforms like EW/AWACS and specialized Fighter jets like EG F/A 18G Growler/J16D etc etc which can detect hostile emotions lot earlier and transfered this information to other assets near the battle area or perform EW/ECM/ECCM and ESM duties to suppress/degrade hostile enemy emotions so enemy is not able to target Fighter jets effectively

All in all first weapon against enemy’s IADs (Integrated air defense systems) and AAMs is EW/ECM/ECCM and ESM not supercruising speed and maneuverability/agility

How can you evades SAMs and AAMs with relying only on supercruising speed and maneuverability/agility? which are more agile and maneuverable then Fighter jets and tolerate lot more G-force then Fighter jets? SAMs and AAMs can sustain G-force of 35-90Gs (modern off-bore IR AAMs like AIM-9X/IR-ST/ASRAAM/PL10 and A-Darter) and best manned fighter jet can sustain G-force of only 11-12G due to human factor, think about it bro

 

[guangdongt]

Fighter jets are not come alone but in packages often along with specialized platforms like EW/AWACS and specialized Fighter jets like EG F/A 18G Growler/J16D etc etc which can detect hostile emotions lot earlier and transfered this information to other assets near the battle area or perform EW/ECM/ECCM and ESM duties to suppress/degrade hostile enemy emotions so enemy is not able to target Fighter jets effectively

All in all first weapon against enemy’s IADs (Integrated air defense systems) and AAMs is EW/ECM/ECCM and ESM not supercruising speed and maneuverability/agility

How can you evades SAMs and AAMs with relying only on supercruising speed and maneuverability/agility? which are more agile and maneuverable then Fighter jets and tolerate lot more G-force then Fighter jets? SAMs and AAMs can sustain G-force of 35-90Gs (modern off-bore IR AAMs like AIM-9X/IR-ST/ASRAAM/PL10 and A-Darter) and best manned fighter jet can sustain G-force of only 11-12G due to human factor, think about it bro

Friend, the electronic warfare aircraft support you mentioned is a part of the aerial rapid breakthrough combat system, and the main means of breakthrough include choosing favorable routes, altitudes, speeds, and combat formations; Organizing feints, escorts, firepower suppression, and electronic countermeasures; Conduct anti air defense maneuvering flights, etc. Super Cruise is also based on this concept, and it is not in conflict with electronic warfare support. Secondly, in high-intensity electronic warfare between both sides, some electronic warfare aircraft are also present, and interference and shielding are normal. One of the benefits of super cruising is that it can enter or leave the battlefield faster. The enemy radar's response time to tracking and analyzing super cruising targets is greatly compressed. In addition, the infrared characteristics of the fighter jet at this time are reduced compared to supersonic flight due to the lack of an afterburner and the excellent air cooling efficiency during high-speed flight.
Secondly, most existing air-to-air combat missiles use the residual momentum after short-term acceleration of rocket engines to pursue targets. If the target fighter jet has a faster evasion speed and maintains high-speed motion for a longer time, then for missiles that rely on active phase inertial gliding:
The larger the escape range, the third and most important point is that when a fighter jet launches a missile at subsonic speeds, if the initial velocity given to the missile by the vehicle is for supersonic weapons, the rocket engine still needs to consume a considerable amount of kinetic energy to break through the sound barrier; The fighter jets in the super patrol state omit this process, and the saved missile fuel will greatly increase the weapon range. Even for the launch of subsonic weapons, a higher initial velocity means a longer ejection path
Finally, the super cruising fighter jet detects the enemy first, fires first, and runs after finishing. Organizing a decent counterattack cannot be achieved solely by relying on missile performance

 

[Irfan Usmani 1977]

Friend, the electronic warfare aircraft support you mentioned is a part of the aerial rapid breakthrough combat system, and the main means of breakthrough include choosing favorable routes, altitudes, speeds, and combat formations; Organizing feints, escorts, firepower suppression, and electronic countermeasures; Conduct anti air defense maneuvering flights, etc. Super Cruise is also based on this concept, and it is not in conflict with electronic warfare support. Secondly, in high-intensity electronic warfare between both sides, some electronic warfare aircraft are also present, and interference and shielding are normal. One of the benefits of super cruising is that it can enter or leave the battlefield faster. The enemy radar's response time to tracking and analyzing super cruising targets is greatly compressed. In addition, the infrared characteristics of the fighter jet at this time are reduced compared to supersonic flight due to the lack of an afterburner and the excellent air cooling efficiency during high-speed flight.
Secondly, most existing air-to-air combat missiles use the residual momentum after short-term acceleration of rocket engines to pursue targets. If the target fighter jet has a faster evasion speed and maintains high-speed motion for a longer time, then for missiles that rely on active phase inertial gliding:
The larger the escape range, the third and most important point is that when a fighter jet launches a missile at subsonic speeds, if the initial velocity given to the missile by the vehicle is for supersonic weapons, the rocket engine still needs to consume a considerable amount of kinetic energy to break through the sound barrier; The fighter jets in the super patrol state omit this process, and the saved missile fuel will greatly increase the weapon range. Even for the launch of subsonic weapons, a higher initial velocity means a longer ejection path
Finally, the super cruising fighter jet detects the enemy first, fires first, and runs after finishing. Organizing a decent counterattack cannot be achieved solely by relying on missile performance

Thanks you for your detailed answer, I fully agree with you on this bro, thanks

 

[Yasser76]

Again, I agree that we don’t know everything but we know the maiden flight of the J-35 in October 2021 and the most likely one of the J-31 in September 2023. To think there was one much earlier is more a unfounded dream than a realistic possibility and to think - even using the October 2023 date - any stealth fighter could be ready for service after only three years of testing (the J-20‘s test phase was already exceptionally short with still twice the time) is beyond any reasonable expectation.

Again in summary, the chance for service entry in Pakistan for 2025 is just ZERO

Lets see, we have both been proven wrong in the past. Like with Z-10, we may see some samples in Pakistan for testing/evaluation or training sooner rather then later.

 

[Deino]

Lets see, we have both been proven wrong in the past. Like with Z-10, we may see some samples in Pakistan for testing/evaluation or training sooner rather then later.

Again I beg to differ … the Z-10 is a wrong example since it was already established type in PLA service well above the hundreds when Pakistan got them for testing, here those who insist on the earliest date claim something totally different, namely that Pakistan will get them long before China gets its own ones and even more some think China would need Pakistans input to make it ready, which is plain ridiculous.

But yes, in about 4 weeks we will know more.

 

[Yasser76]

Again I beg to differ … the Z-10 is a wrong example since it was already established type in PLA service well above the hundreds when Pakistan got them for testing, here those who insist on the earliest date claim something totally different, namely that Pakistan will get them long before China gets its own ones and even more some think China would need Pakistans input to make it ready, which is plain ridiculous.

But yes, in about 4 weeks we will know more.

Well you can interpretate these things in different ways. If PLAAF is not going for J-31 then it makes sense PAF them before PLAAF surely?

Also, if there is a specific Pak model (call is J-31P for arguments sake) surely that would need input (albeit not a very large amount) into the final model?

 

[Deino]

I know especially a certain old member will disagree again, but IMO for both cases NO!

There is first no need for finalizing an export variant first and even more there is no need for such an amount of input that Pakistan needs to get them before the PLAAF.

 

[Yasser76]

I know especially a certain old member will disagree again, but IMO for both cases NO!

There is first no need for finalizing an export variant first and even more there is no need for such an amount of input that Pakistan needs to get them before the PLAAF.

Well its hard to guage the amount of input, and if PLAAF is not a customer then by default logic would dictate the export variant does come first right?

 

[Oscar]

Fighter jets are not come alone but in packages often along with specialized platforms like EW/AWACS and specialized Fighter jets like EG F/A 18G Growler/J16D etc etc which can detect hostile emotions lot earlier and transfered this information to other assets near the battle area or perform EW/ECM/ECCM and ESM duties to suppress/degrade hostile enemy emotions so enemy is not able to target Fighter jets effectively

All in all first weapon against enemy’s IADs (Integrated air defense systems) and AAMs is EW/ECM/ECCM and ESM not supercruising speed and maneuverability/agility

How can you evades SAMs and AAMs with relying only on supercruising speed and maneuverability/agility? which are more agile and maneuverable then Fighter jets and tolerate lot more G-force then Fighter jets? SAMs and AAMs can sustain G-force of 35-90Gs (modern off-bore IR AAMs like AIM-9X/IR-ST/ASRAAM/PL10 and A-Darter) and best manned fighter jet can sustain G-force of only 11-12G due to human factor, think about it bro

Super cruise’s primary use case was:
1. Allow for faster ToT WITHOUT needing the gas guzzling of the afterburner(the Concorde could supercruise) at altitude. No aircraft so far can supercruise at lower altitudes because of denser air friction.

2. Allow usage of that speed to provide additional range(kinetic energy) to weapons

3. Ability to get to a higher energy state without guzzling fuel and be able to stay longer in a fight to expend energy pushing and evading weapons

For stealth fighter aircraft - it allows for going around the reduced(not invisible) detection nets of radar and AD systems before other mobile interceptors can place themselves as hurdles.

On the flipside - while the aircraft is supercruising and not detectable by radar at range - it still has skin friction heating it up at those higher numbers so it becomes a IR target. IR sams aren’t really going to help much because at that altitude the missile warning system on the aircraft will trigger and it can easily evade it by dropping slower and into denser air.

Then it’s the game of cat and mouse to see if you can get interception on target.

For the F-22 raptor supercruising - you can get an interceptor to them because you still dont have a radar lock good enough for any SAM guidance - then hope your interceptor is not killed by the F-22 before it gets close - then hope that the interceptor radar locks on - most non ESA radars cannot get or maintain a lock on that thing - then hope the dissipated IR from the F-22 is strong enough for a IR shot before the F-22 turns around inside your turn circle to kill you.

Stealth vs stealth is a different situation but more so - supercruise is very useful but in very specific scenarios

 

[studsmart]

did j31/j35/fc31 landed in Pakistan yet? Just curious?

 

[Hussain]

did j31/j35/fc31 landed in Pakistan yet? Just curious?

Yes, Ambala Air Base

 

[Irfan Usmani 1977]

did j31/j35/fc31 landed in Pakistan yet? Just curious?

Lol you're worst then @Zarvan and @maverick which are claiming J31 will be in PAF before Dec 2026 Lol

 

[studsmart]

Hahaha just wanted to break the cycle of claim and counter claim

I am still telling you all dec 2026 paf will have j31/j35

 

[studsmart]

Yes, Ambala Air Base

Have landed successfully back at turbat airbase post strike mission