Michael
VIP Member
1, As I said before, offensive and defensive systems always spiral. And, defense systems always lag behind the development of offensive systems. So far, we haven't seen millions of small UCAVs in any local theater. we are talking based on reality. Any defense system has a saturation factor, and any defense system will fail when the base of offensive systems exceeds the base of defensive systems.There is no way you can use traditional way to counter swarm uav. It's just a matter of ROI.
You enemy can use millions of small UAV in the same time in future, but you can't never counter millions of small UAV no matter how many laser system and 625 you have.
UAV are cheaper and cheaper day after day, while 625 cost is fixed(plus inflation).
Something new is needed, it could be swarm to counter swarm, or not. But if you stick to traditional air defense system, there is no way out.
Last but not least, you have to consider the system cost, including full life cycle cost, otherwise, the ROI discussion is meaningless.
625 upper limit is low, 25mm calibar means short range. 6 means you can shoot thousands of bullets per minute at most.
25mm*6 means you can shoot down targets with 2-3 mach speed in 1-2km range. That's the upper limit. Realy combat effectiveness usually be even lower, much lower.
SDB is covered by armor, laser system is useless in this case basically. You have to use APFSDS to penetrate those target(cost goes up). Even though, due to 25mm caliber, SDB is too fast, and too close to you, the kinetic energy will make enough damage unless SDB was hit and exploded in the air.
SDB is high speed target, while 625 can only shoot target in 1-2km, the 625 system can shoot 1-2 SDB at most. Your enemy can offload tens of them, 625 system is doomed in a few munites.
SDB launch platform can be anything in future, UAV or F-35. That's out of discussion here. Completely different topic.
2, based on the technical level analysis. swarm UCAV is only suitable for the same level of security warfare, crushing level of clearance operations, as well as special operations, and is not suitable for the contract level of frontal war. swarm UCAV based on the cost and carrying considerations, it is a very small size, the working time and working distance is very short, and the explosive power is also very small. If the Swarm UCAV is made to a level where it can carry grenades, then its size and cost will skyrocket. The current Swarm UCAV is primarily aimed at soldiers, and it can't form an effective attack on armored targets unless it's made much larger. This means that to bring a very large number of Swarm UCAVs into battle, first its carrier would have to break through the outer defense ring. Even if the Swarm UCAVs are carried by bombers/fighters and dropped in a manner similar to cluster bombs, then the bombers and the cluster bombs themselves would have to break through the outer defense perimeter first. That's a whole other air defense topic.
3, UCAVs on the Russian-Ukrainian battlefield are still mainly medium UAVs dropping bombs and FPVs blowing themselves up. There is no evidence that Swarm UCAVs can break through armored targets. At the same time, both sides do not have laser defense systems, nor do they use CIWS to defend against UCAVs, but more often use electronic jamming systems. Electronic jamming systems have also been shown to be effective against Swarm UCAVs.
4, PLAGF confirmed in training that the Loitering Munition of HQ-17A can effectively counter Swarm UCAV. you can find the video on Chinese media platform. What I am against is using Swarm UCAV to defend against Swarm UCAV, but I am in favor of using the way UAV launch Loitering Munition to create the projectile to defend against Swarm UCAV.
5, The issue of SDB defense is not part of our conflicting views. It will not be discussed. If conventional defenses can't defend against it, Swarm UCAVs can't defend against it even more.














