Green light for Eurofighter from Germany for the Turkish Air Force

[MMM-E]

A billion dollars for 3 Typhoon or Viper. When the capability exists to upgrade F-16 to their standard. Maybe I am not understanding something very basic.

not only Platform
but also massive equipment , missile and spare parts order for the next 20 years


-- to buy 40 new F-16 block70
-- to modernize 79 existing F-16 aircraft to V-Configuration.
-- 48 F110-GE-129D Engines
-- 149 Improved Programmable Display Generators (iPDG)
-- 149 AN/APG-83 AESA Scalable Agile Beam Radars
-- 169 Modular Mission Computers (MMC) 7000AHC

-- 159 Embedded Global Positioning System (GPS) Inertial Navigation Systems (INS) (EGI) with Selective Availability Anti-Spoofing Module (SAASM)

-- 168 Integrated Viper Electronic Warfare Suite (IVEWS)
-- 858 LAU-129 guided missile launchers
-- 44 M61 Vulcan cannons

-- 151 Multifunctional Information Distribution System-Joint Tactical Radio Systems (MIDS-JTRS)

-- 16 AN/AAQ-33 Sniper Advanced Targeting Pods
-- 952 Advanced Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAM) AIM-120C-8
-- 401 AIM-9X Block II Sidewinder Air-to-Air Missiles

-- 96 AGM-88B High-Speed Anti-Radiation Missiles (HARM)
-- 96 AGM-88E Advanced Anti-Radiation Guided Missiles

-- 864 GBU-39/B Small Diameter Bombs Increment 1 (SDB-1)
-- 850 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM)
-- 200 JDAM KMU-557 tail kits for GBU-31v3
-- 384 JDAM KMU-559 tail kits for GBU-32
-- 1,050 FMU-152 fuzes


and Active Optical Target Detectors (AOTD)
Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing Systems (JHMCS) II
Infrared Search and Track (IRST) Pods
AN/ALE-47 Countermeasure Dispenser Systems

 

[UKBengali]

Maybe it's just me who is confused here, and I am trying to understand but getting mixed signals from the Turkish Air Force.

So there exists a domestic upgrade program for the F-16 to bring it up to Block 70 equivalent standard called Ozgur and the program is in full swing. Several hundred F-16 in inventory. Then why 23 billion dollars for a handful of new Viper and 79 upgrade kits?

Then you have the Eurofighter Typhoon entering the equation. Last I was aware of, F-16 Block 70 isn't some MiG-21 in front of the Eurofighter. It can most definitely hold its own. Why go through humiliation by the Germans who have been in Turkey for more than a week now trying to get promises out of them not to use the weaponry against Greece? Not to mention each Typhoon will cost nearly $300 million dollars including spares, maintenance, training, etc.

All of this while major platforms like KAAN and Kizilelma are nearing completion within the next 5 years.

Does Turkiye plan to invade Mordor that it needs such a massive air force immediately? The deals being contemplated with the US and Euro Consortium aren't even going to be delivered quickly, sure a dozen Eurofighters might be ready by 2026 or 2027 but what will that really achieve?

Does Turkiye really expect someone like Germany, who has been ready to humiliate Turkiye politically at all opportunities for the past 15 years or more, to participate in the building of this massive cutting edge air force?

To me the logical way forward is to modernize the F-16 in house and bite your tongue till KAAN is operational.

Turkiye claims to produce 80% of all defence products indigeniously and aims for 100% within the next decade. Eurofighter Typhoon and Vipers and kits from the U.S. are steps that are going to take you backwards.

The version of Eurofigher the Turks are going for is on a whole different level to even F-16 Block 70.

I personally do not understand why they bother with the F-16 Block 70 upgrade as that is just throwing good money after bad, but if they can get the Eurofighter with F-35 level radar and electronics, then that would be a good buy and a definite threat to Greek F-35s.

 

[.44 Magnum Lever Action]

Turkiye wants to produce 40 F-16V under license as like Turkish Aerospace Industries produced 270 F-16 Fighter Jets under license for the Turkish and Egyptian Air Forces

if Turkiye and USA agreed on this agreement in 2025
Turkish Aerospace Industries can produce 40 F-16V in 2 years until the end of 2027

That would be good but is another hurdle which will require lots of lobbying efforts and political concessions being given. LM is totally quiet about this issue and repeatedly says these upgrade kits are the best solution for Turkiye. Then shows the Viper brochure. They don't seem interested.

Licensed production in Turkiye isn't part of the original $23 billion deal currently being looked at. Negotiating for this will take time, possibly several years. Then setting up the infrastructure will also take time. It doesn't fit the timeline between now and KAAN's IOC.

Maybe Turkiye could license produce these older F-16 variants once more and then put them through Ozgur program? I guess it would depend on the manufacturer.

I am still confused my brother.

 

[.44 Magnum Lever Action]

The version of Eurofigher the Turks are going for is on a whole different level to even F-16 Block 70.

I personally do not understand why they bother with the F-16 Block 70 upgrade as that is just throwing good money after bad, but if they can get the Eurofighter with F-35 level radar and electronics, then that would be a good buy and a definite threat to Greek F-35s.

I've heard of two variants they will first receive the variant currently used by Qatar which is one generation behind the latest one. Euro consortium partners haven't even inducted this new tranche yet. Yet somehow Turkiye will get it before KAAN IOC as a stop gap?

 

[K2RULEZ]

The version of Eurofigher the Turks are going for is on a whole different level to even F-16 Block 70.

I personally do not understand why they bother with the F-16 Block 70 upgrade as that is just throwing good money after bad, but if they can get the Eurofighter with F-35 level radar and electronics, then that would be a good buy and a definite threat to Greek F-35s.

Probably due to numbers.

 

[UKBengali]

I've heard of two variants they will first receive the variant currently used by Qatar which is one generation behind the latest one. Euro consortium partners haven't even inducted this new tranche yet. Yet somehow Turkiye will get it before KAAN IOC as a stop gap?

Going for the Qatar version is a bit dumb as that has the old radar and electronics. Maybe they need some planes now really badly and think they can upgrade later but that will come with huge costs and downtime.

The latest version is something else entirely and will probably have the world's most advanced radar and electronics when it comes into UK service next year.

Short of getting a 5th generation fighter, the Typhoon is as good as it gets and I think it should even be able to hold its own against downgraded greek F-35s due to the fact it will have an edge in radar, electronics, higher top speed/flight ceiling and ability to supercruise.

 

[MMM-E]

I personally do not understand why they bother with the F-16 Block 70 upgrade as that is just throwing good money after bad, but if they can get the Eurofighter with F-35 level radar and electronics, then that would be a good buy and a definite threat to Greek F-35s.

Greece will get 20 F-35 in 2028-2030 period and will be combat ready after 2030

after 2030
Turkish Air Force will get 3 stealth platforms KAAN , KIZILELMA and ANKA-4

imagine , 1 Greek F-35 will face with 1 KAAN + 2 ANKA-4 armed with 12 GOKHAN long range air to air missiles under the network of state-of-the-art AESA radars and electronic warfare systems

Greek pilot will be breathless when he sees robotic systems in front of him


even I am not talking about KIZILELMA unmanned stealth Fighter Jets in stand alone mode to help the KAAN and ANKA-4s

1 vs 3


Turkiye is working on this 6th gen warfare concept to become one of the leading countries in the world

 

[.44 Magnum Lever Action]

Going for the Qatar version is a bit dumb as that has the old radar and electronics. Maybe they need some planes now really badly and think they can upgrade later but that will come with huge costs and downtime.

The latest version is something else entirely and will probably have the world's most advanced radar and electronics when it comes into UK service next year.

Short of getting a 5th generation fighter, the Typhoon is as good as it gets and I think it should even be able to hold its own against downgraded greek F-35s due to the fact it will have an edge in radar, electronics, higher top speed/flight ceiling and ability to supercruise.

I don't doubt that this latest Tranche 4 Typhoon will be capable. No doubt it will even leave Growlers and Silent Eagles behind. It just doesn't make sense to me to go this route while a domestic 5th generation platform is right around the corner. Either KAAN is facing problems or there is a serious attrition problem in the Turkish Air Force that we don't know fully about. Or both.

 

[MMM-E]

Going for the Qatar version is a bit dumb as that has the old radar and electronics.

The first Eurofighter was delivered to Qatar in 2022

Qatari Eurofighters have CAPTOR-E AESA Radar to fire METEOR air to air Missile easly to match with RAFALE

and in dog fight, the Eurofighter will become a beast In the hands of skilled Turkish pilots

maybe 12 second hand Eurofighter T-3s from Qatar for urgent need
and 28 new Eurofighter T-4/5 from consortium


There is no definitive official statement yet about second hand Eurofighter purchase from Qatar

 

[Pataliputra]

Never
The Indian KAVERİ engine was dismantled every time and the project failed

30 years and failure .... nothing else

the fact that India developed a prototype and has spent over 30 years refining it is crucial. This ongoing effort has laid the foundation for India to be in a position to develop a fully capable engine within the next 10 years. Failure in the short term doesn’t diminish the long-term progress being made.

 

[K2RULEZ]

the fact that India developed a prototype and has spent over 30 years refining it is crucial. This ongoing effort has laid the foundation for India to be in a position to develop a fully capable engine within the next 10 years. Failure in the short term doesn’t diminish the long-term progress being made.

Keep dreaming buddy.

 

[Pataliputra]

Keep dreaming buddy.

There is something called a learning curve, and any country attempting to develop a turbofan engine must navigate this long process, which typically spans 30 to 40 years, before mastering the technology. A turbofan engine is extremely complex, and it takes decades of research, development, and refinement to achieve success.

 

[K2RULEZ]

There is something called a learning curve, and any country attempting to develop a turbofan engine must navigate this long process, which typically spans 30 to 40 years, before mastering the technology. A turbofan engine is extremely complex, and it takes decades of research, development, and refinement to achieve success.

You don't need to tell me that.

 

[Eşbah]

There is a growing curiosity among the public regarding the government's swift acquisition of F16s and Eurofighters. The explanation is quite straightforward. Officials within the government, including members of the AKP and the President himself, genuinely perceive that a significant conflict with worldwide implications may be imminent. They physically and actually prepare for Word War III - and I'm not joking here.

 

[Ali_Baba]

There is a growing curiosity among the public regarding the government's swift acquisition of F16s and Eurofighters. The explanation is quite straightforward. Officials within the government, including members of the AKP and the President himself, genuinely perceive that a significant conflict with worldwide implications may be imminent. They physically and actually prepare for Word War III - and I'm not joking here.

I do think we are heading into a significant war too in the next few years. Here in the UK, you had goverment ministers suggesting to Pension funds to invest in UK defence producer stocks so that we could invest and build more systems locally. If you hear that, then you know the deep state in the west is preparing for a hot-war in the next few years.