PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions

[Michael]

Why would Pakistan and other export customers settle for the inferior WS-21 when the WS19 is available?

No-one is going to be buying J-35 with WS-13E engine - lol.

You guys don't know anything about WS21, yet you arbitrarily jump to conclusions. I'm disappointed.

The WS21 is an upgraded version of the WS13E.

2007. When China delivered the JF-17 to Pakistan, India pressured Russia not to supply RD93 engines to Pakistan. Final agreement. China buys RD93 from Russia and then exports it to Pakistan. Due to this incident, China started copying RD93, i.e. WS13.

In 2016. fc-31 validated the WS13E successfully. the WS13E is an upgraded version of the WS13, it has a maximum thrust of 9.5 tons, a thrust to weight ratio of 8.6, and a culvert ratio of 0.682. it performs well in subsonic environments, but has poor supersonic capability. the WS13E needs continued improvement and upgrading.

WS21 is an upgraded version of WS13E.
In the 1980s, Liyang developed the WS12 engine, which was prepared for the J-14. Later, because the J-14 program was canceled, the WS12 was canceled at the same time. However, many of the R&D technologies were retained. These retained technologies were later utilized in the WS13 series. Liyang strongly requested to rename the WS13E to WS21, exchanging the “1” and “2” in “WS12”, which in the Chinese context means “翻身仗 turnaround battle”. Eventually, the upgraded version of the WS13E was officially named WS21 after the intervention of senior military leaders.

To summarize.
1, WS21 is not an inferior engine. It is slightly less powerful than the WS19, but good enough. Also, it is still being upgraded and improved.
2, WS19 is not quite ready yet. As of now, almost all of the J35s (all versions of the series) we've seen are using WS21 engines (only 1-2 of the J35A's use the WS19).
So, if PAF wants WS19, at least after 2030.

 

[Fatman17]

 

[Michael]

After careful identification it was determined that yesterday's J35A and today's J35A were not the same J35A. they used WS21 and WS19 respectively.
Now, who dares to say that WS21 is an inferior engine?

 

[Falcon26]

You guys don't know anything about WS21, yet you arbitrarily jump to conclusions. I'm disappointed.

The WS21 is an upgraded version of the WS13E.

2007. When China delivered the JF-17 to Pakistan, India pressured Russia not to supply RD93 engines to Pakistan. Final agreement. China buys RD93 from Russia and then exports it to Pakistan. Due to this incident, China started copying RD93, i.e. WS13.

In 2016. fc-31 validated the WS13E successfully. the WS13E is an upgraded version of the WS13, it has a maximum thrust of 9.5 tons, a thrust to weight ratio of 8.6, and a culvert ratio of 0.682. it performs well in subsonic environments, but has poor supersonic capability. the WS13E needs continued improvement and upgrading.

WS21 is an upgraded version of WS13E.
In the 1980s, Liyang developed the WS12 engine, which was prepared for the J-14. Later, because the J-14 program was canceled, the WS12 was canceled at the same time. However, many of the R&D technologies were retained. These retained technologies were later utilized in the WS13 series. Liyang strongly requested to rename the WS13E to WS21, exchanging the “1” and “2” in “WS12”, which in the Chinese context means “翻身仗 turnaround battle”. Eventually, the upgraded version of the WS13E was officially named WS21 after the intervention of senior military leaders.

To summarize.
1, WS21 is not an inferior engine. It is slightly less powerful than the WS19, but good enough. Also, it is still being upgraded and improved.
2, WS19 is not quite ready yet. As of now, almost all of the J35s (all versions of the series) we've seen are using WS21 engines (only 1-2 of the J35A's use the WS19).
So, if PAF wants WS19, at least after 2030.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. Appreciated.

For a 5th gen fighter, the ability to supercruise is paramount. If the WS21 can’t suprrcruise, this will seriously hamper the credibility of the J35s.

 

[Michael]

For a 5th gen fighter, the ability to supercruise is paramount. If the WS21 can’t suprrcruise, this will seriously hamper the credibility of the J35s.

Supersonic cruising does matter.
But, the F35 does not have supersonic cruise capability. We still call it a 5th generation fighter.
So, will this hurt the credibility of the F35?

 

[Falcon26]

Supersonic cruising does matter.
But, the F35 does not have supersonic cruise capability. We still call it a 5th generation fighter.
So, will this hurt the credibility of the F35?

And that’s why the f-35 gets so much flak! The fact it’s a flying computer doesn’t negate this major drawback. A J35 without a super cruising engine will never be a credible aircraft, except maybe for poor and desperate countries.

Btw, there are plans to ensure the F-35 has supercruise capability by 2029!

 

[Neocloud]

After careful identification it was determined that yesterday's J35A and today's J35A were not the same J35A. they used WS21 and WS19 respectively.
Now, who dares to say that WS21 is an inferior engine?
View attachment 78378

So the first J-35A from yesterday used WS-21, and today's J-35A used WS-19?

 

[Michael]

So the first J-35A from yesterday used WS-21, and today's J-35A used WS-19?

I'm sorry I can't say more.
I need more time to feed my son. You understand?

 

[UKBengali]

You guys don't know anything about WS21, yet you arbitrarily jump to conclusions. I'm disappointed.

The WS21 is an upgraded version of the WS13E.

2007. When China delivered the JF-17 to Pakistan, India pressured Russia not to supply RD93 engines to Pakistan. Final agreement. China buys RD93 from Russia and then exports it to Pakistan. Due to this incident, China started copying RD93, i.e. WS13.

In 2016. fc-31 validated the WS13E successfully. the WS13E is an upgraded version of the WS13, it has a maximum thrust of 9.5 tons, a thrust to weight ratio of 8.6, and a culvert ratio of 0.682. it performs well in subsonic environments, but has poor supersonic capability. the WS13E needs continued improvement and upgrading.

WS21 is an upgraded version of WS13E.
In the 1980s, Liyang developed the WS12 engine, which was prepared for the J-14. Later, because the J-14 program was canceled, the WS12 was canceled at the same time. However, many of the R&D technologies were retained. These retained technologies were later utilized in the WS13 series. Liyang strongly requested to rename the WS13E to WS21, exchanging the “1” and “2” in “WS12”, which in the Chinese context means “翻身仗 turnaround battle”. Eventually, the upgraded version of the WS13E was officially named WS21 after the intervention of senior military leaders.

To summarize.
1, WS21 is not an inferior engine. It is slightly less powerful than the WS19, but good enough. Also, it is still being upgraded and improved.
2, WS19 is not quite ready yet. As of now, almost all of the J35s (all versions of the series) we've seen are using WS21 engines (only 1-2 of the J35A's use the WS19).
So, if PAF wants WS19, at least after 2030.

Thank you for the clarification.

As long as the WS-21 delivers 100kN+ and is good to allow J-35 to supercruise at high Mach-1 speed then all good. The jet is extremely streamlined but needs powerful engines(100kN+) to allow it to have all the aerodynamic and cruising features expected of 5th generation planes.

I misread that it would only deliver 93kN and was just a relabelled WS-13E.

Do you know if the WS-19 will reach 110kN as that would be absolutely amazing?

PS - I consider the F-35 to be a hybrid 4th/5th generation plane due to inability to supercruise and poor aerodynamic performance when compared to F-22 and even WS-10C powered J-20, let alone the WS-15 version of J-20.

 

[Cookie Monster]

It seems to have far less bumps and bulges on the body compared to the F-35. Needless to say sure the Chinese leanred a lot of what they were able to extract secretly about the F-35.

If the thrust to weight ratio is the same as the F-35 (and on paper it is claimed to be) and the data fusion is as good, this will be a beast. Pretty unchallangeable in South Asia, and I would go so far as to say even when the AMCA comes along.....

Great news is that PLAAF and PLAN will be acquiring it as well(and based on the rapid expansion) I would imagine they would acquire them in great numbers…
…considering USAF, JSDAF, South Korea AF…all these air forces would have quite a large amount of 5th gens combined…so China will be needing to match that.

This means that PAF will benefit from such scale and possible upgrades down the line.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Since most Kelly it wont be available for export. I‘m pretty sure China won‘t risk loosing one of Pakistan‘s J-35 together with its latest engine somewhere somewhen in India!

So, if Paksitan wants that bird so eagerly, they must accept, that they maybe get it only with the older/weaker engine.

That doesn’t sound convincing. By that reasoning..US would be exporting F35 with a different engine…
…in case an F35 is lost to an enemy.

Simply retrieving a crashed engine…doesn’t mean u can replicate it. Even countries that have been license producing jet engines…struggle and spend decades to produce their own indigenous jet engines.

 

[MastanKhan]

And that’s why the f-35 gets so much flak! The fact it’s a flying computer doesn’t negate this major drawback. A J35 without a super cruising engine will never be a credible aircraft, except maybe for poor and desperate countries.

Btw, there are plans to ensure the F-35 has supercruise capability by 2029!

Hi,

It gets the flak from those who just want to find something wrong---.

Supercruise is the last effort of defiance by the stealth aircraft---other than that---it performs all its duties within the envelope on sub supersonic speed.

You surprise me with your comments.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

I am pretty sure that many a poster might have mentioned it that the display J31 aircraft are as close to operational models that one could get---.

 

[Hussain]

Not asking for any proof but is it fair to ask what purpose would it serve ?

Excerpt Only -
The other particularly noticeable details in the new images of the J-35 are its engines, which have pronounced serrated exhaust nozzles and rear fuselage cowlings. This may be one of, if not the first look at the new WS-21s that reportedly power this jet. The WS-21, also sometimes referred to as the WS-13X, is a further improved variant or derivative of the WS-13E, which itself was a more powerful afterburning version of that domestic design. The second FC-31 prototype reportedly features WS-13Es in place of the Russian-made RD-93s found on the first example. The WS-13 series is similar in both form and performance to the RD-93.

Our Best Look Yet At China's J-35 Carrier-Capable Stealth Fighter

The first high-resolution picture of China's new naval stealth fighter jet shows new details about its engines, canopy, and more.

www.twz.com

Jul 22, 2022

 

[Hussain]

Hi,

And in my language---we call it a " Kill Switch".

Hi,

I remember how in PDF 1.0 people would laugh at the thought of a kill switch, then a couple of years back, during a visit to Risalpur, an officer mentioned the same thing @Hakikat ve Hikmet mentioned, and you said so many times.

I kept looking at my cell, and wishing I had your number