Flotilla
Trusted Member
Exactly, and both are in a arms race.
Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions
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Tijani
Registered Member
Since before the almost total destruction of Libya
Algeria 
has been preparing to defend herself from primary France 
and the NATO thugs. I believe SU - 57 would be a part of there defensive strategy to take the fight to France if needed.
tsunset
The Legend
Algeria imports plenty of french, Italian weapons, and even warships, a part of its navy is made by Italy and France, but majoritarily Soviet boats and submarinesSince before the almost total destruction of Libya
Algeria prepares mainly against Morroco, Algeria has good relations with the west
Algeria can't be considered as a Russian client state like Belarus, giving its good relations and military imports from the west, especially Italy and France
I consider them only as major buyer of Soviet/Russian weapons, the rest is nothing big, just good relations with both west and Russia
Tijani
Registered Member
I do not argue against you on their relations with Europe. They have relatively good economic relationships with their northern neighbours. Still, if you consider Algeria's horrific colonial past, present realities of the West malign intentions, towards everyone non white western, then you'll understand that inevitably it is only prudent for Algeria to arm itself for a potential future conflict against western designs. Morocco is nothing more than a western proxy. The conflict might start with Morocco but it will be a hundred percent for western interest.
Flotilla
Trusted Member
Hello Tsunset,
No, Algeria has enough armies (Navy, AF and land Army) to crush twice Morocco. S400 and Bastion-P are AD/A2 weapons by deffinition. With those Algeria is capable to close Gibraltar Strait.
But the topic is about Iran air Force, so please my main post was about why Iran has no sense to purchase so expensive and long protracted combat aircraft. It will few years until Russia has fulfilled their air regiments before any delivery, so even from a contractual point of view, just Algeria would be interested.
Qaraca
Registered Member
There is no S-400 in Algeria tho, although this has been claimed on internet by Algerian users for many years. They have S-300PMU2.
Sorry if this was «off-topic».
Immortals
Elite Member
It doesn’t make any sense that Algeria could be a bulwark against U.S. or NATO expansion/power projection. So I assume this Morocco v Algeria beef is locally based like Greece v Turkey rather than a proxy battle. See below:
Top trading partners:
57% EU
11% China
6% Turkey
If NATO or U.S. wanted to put the screws to Algeria it is quite easy: 45% of government income is oil/gas derived and it makes up 95% of exports - so basically all of it. Sanction their energy industry and see Iran Maximum Pressure 2.0 on a much more painful scale.
Cant see Algeria being much of anything in terms of standing up to Western Imperialism.
I noticed Algeria has a higher military budget than Iran at est. $21B in 2024. Which I don’t know if that is impressive for Algeria or depressing for Iran given the wide difference in size/diversity of our economies.
Qaraca
Registered Member
According to this article, Iran’s state budget was $49 billion for 2024. Let’s say Iran was to spend $21 billion on defence, which would mean almost half of total state budget. That would not be normal at all.
Iran’s Government Plans To Increase Taxes Amid Economic Crisis
A sharp increase in taxes in next year’s budget bill has shocked both the public and analysts in Iran, signaling a deepening of the current economic crisis.
I also wonder how Iran covers its huge budget deficit.
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Flotilla
Trusted Member
No, the second enemy of Algeria would be the either NATO (which would include US) or US alone. But everybody knows that Marocco regime is sustained by US generous military help and EU commerce. Marocco in reality is poor and any conventional war against them will be sustained by US and EU after all (like Ukraine). So even if they don't want they are ready to answer to NATO. That is why main core of their Army it is russian origin and chinese also.
Algeria has almost entirely voted with Iran for decades. Algeria has been a great partner to Iran. I've always found it interesting they have been able to successfully thread that needle with 'the west and east' and Iran.
Immortals
Elite Member
Algeria would not be to sustain any such war when most of its economic output is tied to energy and nearly all of it is goes to EU.
Russia isn’t going to be buying oil and natural gas to prop up Algeria, if they could, they would have done it for Iran.
That leaves China and its unknown if Chinese refineries can accept Algerian oil as many are built to accept a specific type of oil (heavy/sweet/sour/etc)
So again the economics of war don’t favor Algeria. The entire military build up could be thought of as deterrence rather than a true war capability. As the Ukraine war has shown us: your war chest matters. Putin had assembled a war chest of over $500B dollars in forex reserves prior to Ukraine war.
sahureka2
Registered Member
time will tell
"Comprehensive partnership agreement between Russia, Iran to cover defense sphere"
https://tass.com/politics/1876783
"Comprehensive partnership agreement between Russia, Iran to cover defense sphere"
https://tass.com/politics/1876783
Immortals
Elite Member
It all depends on this often talked about strategic cooperation agreeement that they are negotiating. It was supposed to be signed during Raisi term, but his untimely death kicked it to new President.
The contents of such an agreement will shape Russo-Iranian cooperation for next decade.
However, it’s telling that Russia has fired at least 50+ NK short range BMs into Ukraine and 0 Iranian TBMs. This is an example of the underlying of mistrust between both countries, that Iran will not want to geopolitically make the necessary sacrifices to help Russia (Russian viewpoint) and that Iran could slip into western sphere of influence one day, the Iranian is similar and they believe Russia is not serious about achieve a strategic relationship with Iran, but one of skewed benefit in favor of Russia that can be dropped at a moments notice when the political winds shift back in favor of Russian and Western cooperation.
This is the obstacle that will need to be overcome to truly reach Pakistan-China or Russia-NK level of strategic partnership.
FUB
Trusted Member
50 North Korean missiles are nothing compared to the devastating impact of thousands of Shahed drones. These drones have been so effective that Russia set up licensed production to keep them in steady supply. Shahed drones have completely changed how modern battlefields , with China ramping up their own production after seeing them in action. You’re entitled to your opinion, but the facts on the ground don’t really back up your perception of Russian-Iranian cooperation.
China Developing Attack Drone Modeled on Iran's Shahed for Russia – Bloomberg
China Developing Attack Drone Modeled on Iran's Shahed for Russia – Bloomberg - The Moscow Times
Chinese and Russian companies are developing and testing an attack drone modeled on the Iranian-made Shahed for shipment to Russia, Bloomberg reported Tuesday, citing anonymous European officials familiar with the matter.
www.themoscowtimes.com
Immortals
Elite Member
You are missing the forest for the trees. It’s not about “destructive” impact, but the escalation ladder of weapon systems provided.
Iran supply artillery shells is not going to draw the same geopolitical outrage or impact as Iran supply tactical ballistic missiles (a strategic weapon). Facts are that Iranian TBMs are of much higher quality and advancement compared to their NK counterparts which have been found to be containing tons of western components. Thus Russia turning to NK for such missiles means it failed to secure them from the Iranian side despite what western propaganda claims.
U.S. supplying howitzers didn’t have the same geopolitical impact as them supplying F-16 or long range missiles. With your logic the howitzer is the critical weapon since it’s contributed the most destructive impact.
While Shaheed’s have kept Ukraine AD busy, it’s FPV drones and lancets that have proved the most game changing for the Russians with FPV drones changing warfare for both sides and likely conflicts for years to come. Just look at how many lancets have destroyed high end Ukraine equipment from S-300’s to Abrams to Radar installations. Add in the Russian FAB to glide bomb program and now Russian fighter jets can pummel Ukrainian front line and rear guards with precision stand off capability. That was a major turn in the war as well.
Either way need to realize the difference there and not look at everything from a pure destructive standpoint or else the most destructive weapons are the same staples for the last 50 years of warfare: Aerial Bombs, Artillery, and short range rockets.
Lastly despite Iranian Shahed drone transfer there is still not a major leap in Russian-Iranian military relations. Compare that to North Korea that owes much of its recent advancements in ICBM, IRBM, and TBM to Russian ToT and technology sharing. Even now in the field of drones, Russian TOT is making its way into NK drone programs.
Meanwhile Iran is still trying to secure SU-35 and the rest of the YAK-130’s. A military quest for the past decade if not longer.
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