JF-17 PFX program

[MastanKhan]

It's in public domian that paf is working on pfx no secret and want just basic answers from air chief not core or anything which needs to be secretive.

Hi,

Pak nuc program was in pub domain---but hardly anyone knew how close pak was till it happened---.

 

[SiliconBit (silicon0000)]

I've said it earlier. We call the JF-17 PFX a 4th.5 generation fighter or a 5th generation fighter, depending on how the 4S standard is evaluated.
The 4S standard for 5th gen fighters was proposed by the US Army. But, unfortunately, none of the F22/F35 in service with the US military fully meets that standard. neither does the Su-57/KF-21/KAAN. However, they are all referred to as 5th generation fighters.
As per the previous reasoning, if Saudi Arabia provides the money, China provides the technology and Pakistan takes care of the manufacturing, then there is no problem at all in upgrading the JF-17 PFX to what people call a 5th generation fighter. We would also have no problem upgrading it to equal or even surpass the KF-21/KAAN in terms of combat power. There are more than enough options in the existing technology pool. It's just that the higher-end subsystems you choose, the more powerful they are, but also more expensive. It's up to the military to choose whether to build a lot of cheap PFX? or a small number of high end PFX?
A PFX with cheap subsystems could be called a 4th.5 generation fighter.
A PFX with high-end subsystems could be called a 5th generation fighter.

Dear Do you genuinely believe that a 5th-generation fighter can be developed based on the JF-17 platform? If Saudi Arabia is providing funding and China is offering technical assistance, why not aim for something on the level of the J-35 or KAAN? It's unrealistic to expect a 5th-generation fighter from a JF-17 base. While the JF-17 PFX will incorporate some 5th-generation features, it cannot be classified as a true 5th-generation fighter (unless one is a fanboy without any knowledge). If the PAF pursues an indigenous 5th-generation fighter (which is highly unlikely), it would be a separate project. Moreover, Saudi Arabia doesn't seem particularly interested in jointly developing a 5th-generation fighter with China and Pakistan. This assumption is far-fetched.

The J-10 was also a mainstay of the PLAAF in the early days. We didn't have more options at that time.
It is only now, with the mass service of J-20/J-16, that the J-10 has been relegated to a mop-up supporting role.
By the time J-35 is officially in service in PAF, your J-10CE will also become a supporting role for J-35.


The main reason why PLAAF favors heavy fighters:
China is a vast country. Heavy fighters can cover a wider part of the country. We can achieve full coverage of the country with fewer heavy fighters. It also brings the benefit of requiring fewer pilots and fewer airfields. It is a money-saving exercise.
Previously, the PLAAF was practically incapable of achieving complete homeland defense. We had a lot of bad things happen.

Agreed. What I said earlier isn't that China has a wrong doctrine. I merely stated that it differs from Pakistan's doctrine, as both countries have distinct needs. Your point in this paragraph is correct.

 

[Reichmarshal]

Interesting idea ( i like it ) - they would have to change all the mission computers, and firecontrol systems and of course add the radar. Basically do a Pakistani version of the 'Ozgur' that Turkey has for its own F16 upgrade programme.

It will be problematic given the large number of AMRAAMs Pakistan has, and potentially not being able to upgrade them into a home grown solution but with home grown missiles, quite doable. It comes down if Pakistan can develop those systems inhouse under PFX, and then potentially extend their use to the F16 upgrade programme. A locally manufatured J17C airframe with a complete Pakistani avionics suite makes alot more sense to me as a PFX programme.

I am not at all convinced that Pakistan can make airframe structural changes, validate those changes both structurally and with ordance and make the appropriate changes to the Fly-By-Wire systems for those changes for those scenarios.

To do that u need the codes which PAF does not have..
A tech was court martialed very recently for replacing a very small component on an f 16 with a local one

 

[Toxic]

To do that u need the codes which PAF does not have..
A tech was court martialed very recently for replacing a very small component on an f 16 with a local one

Didn't we do some minor modifications to our F-16s recently?

 

[Reichmarshal]

Didn't we do some minor modifications to our F-16s recently?

non that i know off.....but the restrictions r so tight that it is highly unlikely that PAF were able to do any sort of modifications inhouse

 

[Oscar]

Didn't we do some minor modifications to our F-16s recently?

No modifications - just rebuilt large sections of a damaged F-16 (although if certain rumors are to be entertained it’s not worked the best but still better than a write off)

 

[TF8]

That is what I am saying. Basically, something like KF-21 but a single engine one. The current KF-21 which for now doesn't have internal weapons bay it would be something like that. Money will come from Arab countries and Technological help will come from Turkey.

Zarvan. I cant resist. Sorry to say but it seems like you say every next thing your mind wanders to without actually giving it a thought. Why would Arab countries give us the money?

 

[MastanKhan]

Zarvan. I cant resist. Sorry to say but it seems like you say every next thing your mind wanders to without actually giving it a thought. Why would Arab countries give us the money?

Hi,

what kind of question is that---? they have been giving us funds & will keep doing so---.

 

[Reichmarshal]

No modifications - just rebuilt large sections of a damaged F-16 (although if certain rumors are to be entertained it’s not worked the best but still better than a write off)

Its this one below....but this was a long time ago ......LM had basically called it a write off, so PAC asked them if it was ok if they gave it a go n they did n it worked just fine.

Wt I am talking about is a sub sys that the tech changed n it worked but that had the potential of a contract violation with LM.....n knowing how fickle they r the tech was court martialed

 

[Zarvan]

Zarvan. I cant resist. Sorry to say but it seems like you say every next thing your mind wanders to without actually giving it a thought. Why would Arab countries give us the money?

They already have been brought on board for PFX program because the weapons which they can't get from USA and Europe we can provide, plus the ranges.

 

[SABRE]

Hi,

Pak nuc program was in pub domain---but hardly anyone knew how close pak was till it happened---.

If one goes by the research work in public domain - and generally these research tend to be reliable - then the Americans did conclude that the program is there and the nuke weapon is inevitable. So, they shifted gears from preventing Pakistan from going nuclear to managing it and not to have it develop the explosive device. In short, they wanted Pakistan to have the capacity but not the capability. Of course, this generous policy was largely due to the Afghan-Soviet war. The said conclusion reached by the Americans was during Carter's presidency and Carter was no friend or sympathizer of Pakistan. But the guy also did major damage to US arms exports and perhaps was the biggest failure in terms of foreign policy in the US history until Obama joined him. Carter cancelled Pakistan's prospective purchase of A-7 Corsair II only to later offer F-16/79 to shore its support in Afghan War, a failed pitch that was scrapped by President Reagan who subsequently sold Pakistan F-16A/B. But one of the reasons for Reagan to sell F-16s was to also gain leverage on Pakistani's nuke program to continue to ensure that the capacity did not transition to capability.

 

[Ali_Baba]

No modifications - just rebuilt large sections of a damaged F-16 (although if certain rumors are to be entertained it’s not worked the best but still better than a write off)

Why would it not have worked - it was structural parts ? Curious.

 

[Goku-Kun]

this was presented as a design for PFX officially:

 

[FuturePAF]

this was presented as a design for PFX officially:

Yes, and it bears a striking similarity to the McDonnell Douglas JAST design, which I have been advocating for years is a great design for the PAF to study as a follow on from the JF-17.

 

[Ak01]

They already have been brought on board for PFX program because the weapons which they can't get from USA and Europe we can provide, plus the ranges.

youre aware the UK is trying to rope in KSA on tempest yea