JF-17 PFX program

[MastanKhan]

If one goes by the research work in public domain - and generally these research tend to be reliable - then the Americans did conclude that the program is there and the nuke weapon is inevitable. So, they shifted gears from preventing Pakistan from going nuclear to managing it and not to have it develop the explosive device. In short, they wanted Pakistan to have the capacity but not the capability. Of course, this generous policy was largely due to the Afghan-Soviet war. The said conclusion reached by the Americans was during Carter's presidency and Carter was no friend or sympathizer of Pakistan. But the guy also did major damage to US arms exports and perhaps was the biggest failure in terms of foreign policy in the US history until Obama joined him. Carter cancelled Pakistan's prospective purchase of A-7 Corsair II only to later offer F-16/79 to shore its support in Afghan War, a failed pitch that was scrapped by President Reagan who subsequently sold Pakistan F-16A/B. But one of the reasons for Reagan to sell F-16s was to also gain leverage on Pakistani's nuke program to continue to ensure that the capacity did not transition to capability.

Hi,

We blame Carter---but the real fck up was done by pakistan---.

Ever hear the term "never look a gift horse in the mouth "---.

Pakistan should have taken evertyhting that it could----then lambasted the USA afterwords---.

Did you know that the USA offered Hawkeye to pakistan----but Paf in its arrogance wanted the 707 sentry---. The hawkeye still exists---that sentry version is gone---.

Let's not blame the US for all the errors---.

The americans knew what our scientists were capable of and what they were buying---so our nuc program was no secret to them---.

 

[SABRE]

Hi,

We blame Carter---but the real fck up was done by pakistan---.

Ever hear the term "never look a gift horse in the mouth "---.

Pakistan should have taken evertyhting that it could----then lambasted the USA afterwords---.

Did you know that the USA offered Hawkeye to pakistan----but Paf in its arrogance wanted the 707 sentry---. The hawkeye still exists---that sentry version is gone---.

Let's not blame the US for all the errors---.

The americans knew what our scientists were capable of and what they were buying---so our nuc program was no secret to them---.

Whose blaming the US?

 

[MastanKhan]

Whose blaming the US?

Hi,

Aray bhai sahib---agar samajh nahin to mehfil mein mat bolain---.

 

[Oscar]

Why would it not have worked - it was structural parts ? Curious.

All I heard was “kuch thoray bohat upar neechay tha”

 

[Oscar]

Hi,



Did you know that the USA offered Hawkeye to pakistan----but Paf in its arrogance wanted the 707 sentry---. The hawkeye still exists---that sentry version is gone---.

The story is not about arrogance but rather capabilities and support.

Hawkeye had a good radar system but reports of its airframe maintenance along with the PAF and PIA’s long operational history with 707s were key motivations.

The PAF was even willing to accept the Hawkeye radar on the P-3s it was looking to purchase but by the time funds doled around it was too late.

It also has to go to the mentality of the army that the PAF needed “permission” to buy stuff - F-6 numbers were bolstered by pitching to the Army that they would be used for CAS.

This Army has really screwed up every aspect of Pakistan’s defense in its overpowering leverage and its testament to both PAF folks who did stand their ground and even the more educated and smart Army types who knew what was at stake - otherwise the historically mediocre leadership of PA would have you flying F-7s as frontline fighters even today while they bought Leclercs.

 

[FuturePAF]

The story is not about arrogance but rather capabilities and support.

Hawkeye had a good radar system but reports of its airframe maintenance along with the PAF and PIA’s long operational history with 707s were key motivations.

The PAF was even willing to accept the Hawkeye radar on the P-3s it was looking to purchase but by the time funds doled around it was too late.

It also has to go to the mentality of the army that the PAF needed “permission” to buy stuff - F-6 numbers were bolstered by pitching to the Army that they would be used for CAS.

This Army has really screwed up every aspect of Pakistan’s defense in its overpowering leverage and its testament to both PAF folks who did stand their ground and even the more educated and smart Army types who knew what was at stake - otherwise the historically mediocre leadership of PA would have you flying F-7s as frontline fighters even today while they bought Leclercs.

Does the increased tempo of PAF and PN induction in the past 5-10 years indicate this army first mindset has changed at the top?

 

[Quwa]

Does the increased tempo of PAF and PN induction in the past 5-10 years indicate this army first mindset has changed at the top?

I don't know if it's a change from "Army-first" to PN/PAF or "Army-first" to "strike fast, strike hard" mentality. If you notice, the PA, PN, and PAF are all focusing on long-range precision strike capabilities...Fatah-series, Taimoor/Ra'ad-II, AZB, SMASH, etc.

 

[Zarvan]

Does the increased tempo of PAF and PN induction in the past 5-10 years indicate this army first mindset has changed at the top?

No what has changed is that with strong Air Force and it seems now it would be Navy also we can achieve a lot. Navy is still pretty much a defensive force but Air Force moment came after 2019. When we shot down Indian jets

 

[SABRE]

Hi,

Aray bhai sahib---agar samajh nahin to mehfil mein mat bolain---.

Must you be a condescending uncouth?

Besides, everything you said made no sense with what I had said.

 

[Ak01]

Must you be a condescending uncouth?

Besides, everything you said made no sense with what I had said.

he does nothing but this, just a waste of bandwidth, dont engage

 

[MastanKhan]

Whose blaming the US?

Hi,

Pakistanis---off course---if you did not know that---.

 

[MastanKhan]

he does nothing but this, just a waste of bandwidth, dont engage

Must you be a condescending uncouth?

Besides, everything you said made no sense with what I had said.

Hi,

Allah milai jori---.

 

[Sami_1]

Russian offers for upgraded versions of RD-33 engine to India The engine will deliver a maximum thrust of 110 kN, perfectly aligning with the specifications outlined by DRDO’s Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) for the AMCA. It will feature a gas generator derived from the AL-41F1S, used in Russia’s Su-35, and incorporate some elements from the AL-51 engine. Essentially, it is a compact version of the Izdeliye 177S engine
Of course, the Russians are offering the engine to India and Pakistan, especially if India refuses to cooperate, it will be offered to Pakistan’s JF-17 PFX project
It may have originally been offered to Pakistan as part of the Russian offer for technical cooperation, which supports Pakistani development and encourages China to offer a lower offer than the Russians as long as the matter is in the competition phase for Pakistan to achieve what it desires from the success of its national project

https://idrw.org/russia-keen-to-offer-rd-33-successor-engine-technology-for-indias-amca-program/

The Russians in the past years were more flexible in technical cooperation, and after the development in China, they are trying to maintain their markets. For example, with the Egyptian side, Egypt financed the development of the OLS for the MIG-29M/M2 and other systems in it, and the Egyptians did not want to finance the development of the AESA radar because they were not convinced of the Russians’ ability to complete the development on time. The current situation of the Russians makes them more flexible in transferring technology, especially since the Indians are not interested in Russian engines and are favoring the Americans over them, despite the Americans manipulating the Indians to make them unable to compete with them in exporting Indian fighters in the international market.

 

[Oscar]

Does the increased tempo of PAF and PN induction in the past 5-10 years indicate this army first mindset has changed at the top?

Slightly - but it then becomes another political/personal character statement that the insecure ones will call slander and I seriously DGAF about Pakistan enough anymore to make that statement.

 

[FuturePAF]

View attachment 87222

Russian offers for upgraded versions of RD-33 engine to India The engine will deliver a maximum thrust of 110 kN, perfectly aligning with the specifications outlined by DRDO’s Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) for the AMCA. It will feature a gas generator derived from the AL-41F1S, used in Russia’s Su-35, and incorporate some elements from the AL-51 engine. Essentially, it is a compact version of the Izdeliye 177S engine
Of course, the Russians are offering the engine to India and Pakistan, especially if India refuses to cooperate, it will be offered to Pakistan’s JF-17 PFX project
It may have originally been offered to Pakistan as part of the Russian offer for technical cooperation, which supports Pakistani development and encourages China to offer a lower offer than the Russians as long as the matter is in the competition phase for Pakistan to achieve what it desires from the success of its national project

https://idrw.org/russia-keen-to-offer-rd-33-successor-engine-technology-for-indias-amca-program/

The Russians in the past years were more flexible in technical cooperation, and after the development in China, they are trying to maintain their markets. For example, with the Egyptian side, Egypt financed the development of the OLS for the MIG-29M/M2 and other systems in it, and the Egyptians did not want to finance the development of the AESA radar because they were not convinced of the Russians’ ability to complete the development on time. The current situation of the Russians makes them more flexible in transferring technology, especially since the Indians are not interested in Russian engines and are favoring the Americans over them, despite the Americans manipulating the Indians to make them unable to compete with them in exporting Indian fighters in the international market.

Is it an offer for just a sale or ToT for most of the engine? Pakistan, IMHO, should be seeking to do a ToT, such that the engine could be built in Pakistan.

A re-design of the current JF-17 Block 3 to accommodate this engine would be a practical application. Giving the plane enough power to maximize its TWR and maneuverability.