Iranian Air Force (IRIAF/IRGC-ASF) | News and Discussions

[Tijani]

Except that there is no grey area. Any normal country would have seized the opportunity after realizing what would happen. US is stealing Syrian oil for a decade now. Israel is grabbing Syrian land after annihilating every possible weapon in Syria with 2-3 days and there are chances they will aim for southern oil fields. This is how normal countries act. We came out of there empty-handed after spending 50 billion USD.



Iran did not cause the collapse nor was it in Iranian hands. Israel controlled it all using 50% western-owned Turkey. Netanyahu said Assad was playing with fire and in a week AlQaeda entered Syria. Was Iranian intelligence not seeing what was going to happen? Where was Esmael Ghaani, the clown who replaced General Soleimani? That guy is not even 1/4 of Legendary Soleimani.



- Iran kept Iraqi aircrafts
- Syria owes Iran 40-50 Billion USD

The whole Syria file didn't turn out the way Iran or any of us who supports the AoR wished. So much blood and treasure spent! I'm still having difficulties digesting it but what's done is done. Only thing left to do is to see how it can be turned into a beneficial situation in the future. I for one believe that it will.
The Zionist West is in delirium over the toppling of Assad but this will come back to hunt them. Druginduced headchopping maniacs are not exactly reliable partners in crime.
Now concerning the matter of the military property of the Syrian state. I believe Iran did warn the Syrian government of the West's intention of using the terrorist to overrun Damascus but it seems to no avail. All major pillars of the Syrian state defected for reasons unknown,though most likely dollars. Let's take for granted that Iran is owed money it willingly lend to Syria. It still can't just go around taking property that doesn't belong to it. That's pure thievery and a perogative of the Zionist West as you so eloquently stated. Let's please not emulate them, less we be like them. They've normalised everything evil. I'm certain that Iran had ability of doing what you've argued for but power and ability doesn't equate a just behaviour. Iran was invited to Syria by the legitimate Syrian government thus taking advantage of inability of the said government in it's time of weakness would hardly endear others to see Iran as a trustworthy partner.
I argue that the Iraqi case was different in nature. I do not know how much Iranian planning was behind it but as far as I know these were Iraqi pilots who willingly defected. If I remember correctly the planes were originally kept due to Iraq being occupied by the FUKUS coalition and some were later returned to Iraq to defend the country against the headchoppers 1.0.

 

[FUB]

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[ToddE]

Seems like this Qaher wingman is gonna be a reality now. I have no doubt Iran can create a classy prototype but will it hit the assembly line is doubtful IMO. Iran has bad aviation managers who have so far failed in mass productions in combat aviation ector despite promising prototypes. Regardless, I have added below what can designers use from domestically available tech, it will all depend upon the size of the drone.

Airframe​

Size: Although I do believe they may have completely changed the dimensions, but judging by the Satellite photos, the airframe seems atleast the size of a light fighter.

Aerodynamics: People raised the viability of the airframe before based upon small and weird positioning of air-intakes with bottoms totally blocked. This could theoretically mean stall at a sharp pitch-up motion. Seems like re-work was needed.

FBW: It will be necessary to control a large jet-powered unmanned vehicle, the tech is demonstrated in Kowsar.

RCS: Low RCS or atleast low observable Airframe will be needed. With experience gained from RQ-170 and then mass production of Local Shahed Flying wings, It is quite possible that RCS drops considerably.

Internal Bays: They will be necessary for Stealth flight and the tech is demonstrated in Shahed Flying Wings and also in Shahed-149 although that's a totally different design.

Engine Options​

Turbojets
2 x OWJ J-90 Afterburning Turbojets (used in Kowsar, total 11,000 lbf wet thrust). 2 x J-85II can push F-5 airframe to 0.99 Mach without afterburner so Qaher wingmen may supercruise with 2 x OWJ.

2 x OWJ-J-90Y Non-Afterburning Turbojet(used in Yasin AT, total 7200 lbs dry thrust)

Turbofans
2 x Jahesh-700 Non-Afterburning Turbofans (Single Crystal technology, total 3600 lbf dry thrust, Doubtful to be in production)

2 x Tolue-14 Nonafterburning Turbofans (Possible use in Shahed 171 Stealth UCAV, ~3500 lbf dry thrust)

Onboard Avionics​

Radar Options

Bayyenat-I PESA (100/150 KM A2A Track/Detect range with SAR, look down Shoot down capability, Fitted in F-4E/D Dowran Upgrade program, too heavy and large for wingman)

Bayyenat-II PESA (94/115 KM A2A Track/Detect range with 1 m2 SAR for ground attack at 78 KM, look down Shoot down capability, ECM control, weight < 100 KG, Application: Kowsar prototype)

Bayyenat-V / Baaz PESA (75-80/100 KM A2A Track/Detect range, rest is unknown, weight < 100 KG, Application: Saeghe I/II, Kowsar)

Computers

Flight controllers, Weapons Management, Air Data instrument, Engine Control instruments etc have all been demonstrated before in Kowsar, Yasin.

Active/Passive Sensors

EO/IRST

Laser Range Finder

E-warfare/Self-Defense
RWR/MAWS (SAIRAN) slaved Chaff/Flare dispenser (Available in Kowsar and F-4 Dowran, demonstrated in shows)

Internal Jammers (Demonstrated in Mohajer-6)

External Shahin X Band pod (ALQ-119 copy, available to entire IRIAF)

- Nav/Comm

INS+SAT

Double Duplex Datalink by SAIRAN (Available in Kowsar IRIAF, Su-22M4 of IRGCAF, Karrar drones)

TACAN (SAIRAN built, available in all fighters)

Weapons Options​

Air to Air

Azarakash HOBS WVR (Used in SHORAD, reported use as a WVR)

Arash AIM-7E2 airframe-based BVR (mockup only, Doubtful existence)

R-77E (Arrival from Russia, doubtful implementation)

Air to Ground

SDB

Sadid 1/345 or Ghaem

Balaban
??

 

[sahureka2]

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If what is highlighted in the video images can be transformed into reality, the Bagherì in addition to the sky-jump will also have an arrest system for drones (perhaps also for an unmanned Qaher version)

 

[Immortals]

Seems like this Qaher wingman is gonna be a reality now. I have no doubt Iran can create a classy prototype but will it hit the assembly line is doubtful IMO. Iran has bad aviation managers who have so far failed in mass productions in combat aviation ector despite promising prototypes. Regardless, I have added below what can designers use from domestically available tech, it will all depend upon the size of the drone.

Airframe​

Size: Although I do believe they may have completely changed the dimensions, but judging by the Satellite photos, the airframe seems atleast the size of a light fighter.

Aerodynamics: People raised the viability of the airframe before based upon small and weird positioning of air-intakes with bottoms totally blocked. This could theoretically mean stall at a sharp pitch-up motion. Seems like re-work was needed.

FBW: It will be necessary to control a large jet-powered unmanned vehicle, the tech is demonstrated in Kowsar.

RCS: Low RCS or atleast low observable Airframe will be needed. With experience gained from RQ-170 and then mass production of Local Shahed Flying wings, It is quite possible that RCS drops considerably.

Internal Bays: They will be necessary for Stealth flight and the tech is demonstrated in Shahed Flying Wings and also in Shahed-149 although that's a totally different design.

Engine Options​

Turbojets
2 x OWJ J-90 Afterburning Turbojets (used in Kowsar, total 11,000 lbf wet thrust). 2 x J-85II can push F-5 airframe to 0.99 Mach without afterburner so Qaher wingmen may supercruise with 2 x OWJ.

2 x OWJ-J-90Y Non-Afterburning Turbojet(used in Yasin AT, total 7200 lbs dry thrust)

Turbofans
2 x Jahesh-700 Non-Afterburning Turbofans (Single Crystal technology, total 3600 lbf dry thrust, Doubtful to be in production)

2 x Tolue-14 Nonafterburning Turbofans (Possible use in Shahed 171 Stealth UCAV, ~3500 lbf dry thrust)

Onboard Avionics​

Radar Options

Bayyenat-I PESA (100/150 KM A2A Track/Detect range with SAR, look down Shoot down capability, Fitted in F-4E/D Dowran Upgrade program, too heavy and large for wingman)

Bayyenat-II PESA (94/115 KM A2A Track/Detect range with 1 m2 SAR for ground attack at 78 KM, look down Shoot down capability, ECM control, weight < 100 KG, Application: Kowsar prototype)

Bayyenat-V / Baaz PESA (75-80/100 KM A2A Track/Detect range, rest is unknown, weight < 100 KG, Application: Saeghe I/II, Kowsar)

Computers

Flight controllers, Weapons Management, Air Data instrument, Engine Control instruments etc have all been demonstrated before in Kowsar, Yasin.

Active/Passive Sensors

EO/IRST

Laser Range Finder

E-warfare/Self-Defense
RWR/MAWS (SAIRAN) slaved Chaff/Flare dispenser (Available in Kowsar and F-4 Dowran, demonstrated in shows)

Internal Jammers (Demonstrated in Mohajer-6)

External Shahin X Band pod (ALQ-119 copy, available to entire IRIAF)

- Nav/Comm

INS+SAT

Double Duplex Datalink by SAIRAN (Available in Kowsar IRIAF, Su-22M4 of IRGCAF, Karrar drones)

TACAN (SAIRAN built, available in all fighters)

Weapons Options​

Air to Air

Azarakash HOBS WVR (Used in SHORAD, reported use as a WVR)

Arash AIM-7E2 airframe-based BVR (mockup only, Doubtful existence)

R-77E (Arrival from Russia, doubtful implementation)

Air to Ground

SDB

Sadid 1/345 or Ghaem

Balaban
??

Key question brother: how will it be commanded?

Either a F-14 or SU-35 will have to command it no? Relying on ground based receiver or the mothership is a recipe for disaster.

If you modify the design to a 150% mock up and eliminate Bird of Prey tipped wings and increase intakes for proper airflow. Then you get a poor man’s J-20 like-design with little wings in the front and wide wings in the back.

Although like you I’m skeptical if this gets mass produced outside of 1-2 squadrons. It seems Iran just wants to show Turkey it too can have a wingman jet. But the real need continues to be an air superiority fighter, not smacking together an F-5 with F-35 from Temu.

Any news out there on the Iranian AL-31 class jet engine?

 

[Immortals]

If what is highlighted in the video images can be transformed into reality, the Bagherì in addition to the sky-jump will also have an arrest system for drones (perhaps also for an unmanned Qaher version)
View attachment 88679

View attachment 88682

If that is unmanned Qaher, than it is quite small - potentially 50% size of prototype/mock up.

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The internal bay was already quite small on the prototype, a 50% reduction means low payload capability in line with Shahed S-171. A smaller size means that you couldn’t potentially get away with a single J-700 rather than a dual engine configuration.


@Emirzad

 

[ToddE]

Key question brother: how will it be commanded?

Remains to be seen and that depends upon what they are designing it for. RF, LOS/BLOS can provide enough range for point-defense or interception roles but within the coverage of IADS/Ship because these systems are susceptible to jamming attacks outside IADS. Another strong hint exists about the in-use Iranian local encrypted DD-Datalink that I wrote about above although I am doubtful SU-35S will be the mother aircraft for that. The IAIO head talked about a MUM-T system of Kowsar with UCAVS in detail. Considering how IRIAF will become a Russian aircraft-filled force in the future, they will have to work on this local Datalink to connect it with Russian systems on board Yaks Sukhois or MIGs if they get upgraded.

For attack roles for longer range, options exist for Russo-Sino SATs + Onboard Autonomous guidance but that would be stupidity considering the Iranian need is defense of its own airspace or surface vessels. IRGCAF has enough missile force to lead the attack role in Iranian doctrine.

All remains to be seen.

Either a F-14 or SU-35 will have to command it no? Relying on ground based receiver or the mothership is a recipe for disaster.

If it's going to be a PR stunt which I feel it will be then they are just gonna show us a prototype, maybe a flying one, call it "in mass production" and hide away the next few years. You are thinking way beyond.

If you modify the design to a 150% mock up and eliminate Bird of Prey tipped wings and increase intakes for proper airflow. Then you get a poor man’s J-20 like-design with little wings in the front and wide wings in the back.

I already wrote about that above. The high up-pitch stall problem due to the blocked bottom of the air intakes was discussed in detail when Qaher's mockup was shown. Problems with Iranian aero-dynamics are not new.

Saegheh squared air-intakes being changed back
Tazarve's crash
Yasin's crash
Qaher's Air-Intakes being discussed as a potential problem

Hope they have learned their lessons.

Although like you I’m skeptical if this gets mass produced outside of 1-2 squadrons. It seems Iran just wants to show Turkey it too can have a wingman jet.

or just undo the Qaher mistake, prove the point to the world and move on.

Realistically, the ship is out there in the sea now and it needs to have an actual fleet so even if just 2 squadrons are built then the vehicle has served its purpose. If experiences are good then viola, we have a loyal wingmen for IRIAF.

But the real need continues to be an air superiority fighter, not smacking together an F-5 with F-35 from Temu.

Su-35S have arrived/are arriving.

Any news out there on the Iranian AL-31 class jet engine?

Nobody knows if it is going to be AL-31 class or RD-33 Class since we dont know what it would be. The official stance is that it will be a turbofan and it will be there in 2027.

I have a feeling that SU-35S arrival and now very possibly SU-30SM procurement will kill lots of domestic products or projects like local LR-BVR, domestic engines, etc., just like I believe Yak-130 has killed Yasin's career. If the Mig fleet is upgraded then a local interceptor or CAP will not be needed. Remember most of these projects were born out of necessity because there was no outside option available. That need will be gone if IRIAF gets some close to 100 x 4+ gen air-superiority armed jets, although it will be pure stupidity considering what we saw in Ukraine theatre.

If Kowsar is down the drain and they dont use OWJ-J90 turbojet in anything else (Qaher, yasin) I see that project being bundled up as well with a very possible chance of LP of Saljut AL-222-25 of YAK-130 which Key-aero report confirmed to be in serious talks.

 

[ToddE]

If that is unmanned Qaher, than it is quite small - potentially 50% size of prototype/mock up.

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The internal bay was already quite small on the prototype, a 50% reduction means low payload capability in line with Shahed S-171. A smaller size means that you couldn’t potentially get away with a single J-700 rather than a dual engine configuration.


@Emirzad

I predict a 25-30 ft length. It's similar in size to the XQ58 Valkyrie which is powered by a single FJ33 of which the Jahesh-700 Turbofan is a direct copy so there we go. Valkyrie can carry two AIM-120 inside internal bays so theoretically Qaher can easily have 2-4 WVRs probably as well. The problem I am seeing is that Valkyrie has no landing gears and is recovered by chutes. How are they going to fit landing gears and internal bays in a 25-30 feet airframe? either they take the wheels out completely under the wings or are they planning to recover the drone with chutes in sea?

 

[jauk]

Seems like this Qaher wingman is gonna be a reality now. I have no doubt Iran can create a classy prototype but will it hit the assembly line is doubtful IMO. Iran has bad aviation managers who have so far failed in mass productions in combat aviation ector despite promising prototypes. Regardless, I have added below what can designers use from domestically available tech, it will all depend upon the size of the drone.

Airframe​

Size: Although I do believe they may have completely changed the dimensions, but judging by the Satellite photos, the airframe seems atleast the size of a light fighter.

Aerodynamics: People raised the viability of the airframe before based upon small and weird positioning of air-intakes with bottoms totally blocked. This could theoretically mean stall at a sharp pitch-up motion. Seems like re-work was needed.

FBW: It will be necessary to control a large jet-powered unmanned vehicle, the tech is demonstrated in Kowsar.

RCS: Low RCS or atleast low observable Airframe will be needed. With experience gained from RQ-170 and then mass production of Local Shahed Flying wings, It is quite possible that RCS drops considerably.

Internal Bays: They will be necessary for Stealth flight and the tech is demonstrated in Shahed Flying Wings and also in Shahed-149 although that's a totally different design.

Engine Options​

Turbojets
2 x OWJ J-90 Afterburning Turbojets (used in Kowsar, total 11,000 lbf wet thrust). 2 x J-85II can push F-5 airframe to 0.99 Mach without afterburner so Qaher wingmen may supercruise with 2 x OWJ.

2 x OWJ-J-90Y Non-Afterburning Turbojet(used in Yasin AT, total 7200 lbs dry thrust)

Turbofans
2 x Jahesh-700 Non-Afterburning Turbofans (Single Crystal technology, total 3600 lbf dry thrust, Doubtful to be in production)

2 x Tolue-14 Nonafterburning Turbofans (Possible use in Shahed 171 Stealth UCAV, ~3500 lbf dry thrust)

Onboard Avionics​

Radar Options

Bayyenat-I PESA (100/150 KM A2A Track/Detect range with SAR, look down Shoot down capability, Fitted in F-4E/D Dowran Upgrade program, too heavy and large for wingman)

Bayyenat-II PESA (94/115 KM A2A Track/Detect range with 1 m2 SAR for ground attack at 78 KM, look down Shoot down capability, ECM control, weight < 100 KG, Application: Kowsar prototype)

Bayyenat-V / Baaz PESA (75-80/100 KM A2A Track/Detect range, rest is unknown, weight < 100 KG, Application: Saeghe I/II, Kowsar)

Computers

Flight controllers, Weapons Management, Air Data instrument, Engine Control instruments etc have all been demonstrated before in Kowsar, Yasin.

Active/Passive Sensors

EO/IRST

Laser Range Finder

E-warfare/Self-Defense
RWR/MAWS (SAIRAN) slaved Chaff/Flare dispenser (Available in Kowsar and F-4 Dowran, demonstrated in shows)

Internal Jammers (Demonstrated in Mohajer-6)

External Shahin X Band pod (ALQ-119 copy, available to entire IRIAF)

- Nav/Comm

INS+SAT

Double Duplex Datalink by SAIRAN (Available in Kowsar IRIAF, Su-22M4 of IRGCAF, Karrar drones)

TACAN (SAIRAN built, available in all fighters)

Weapons Options​

Air to Air

Azarakash HOBS WVR (Used in SHORAD, reported use as a WVR)

Arash AIM-7E2 airframe-based BVR (mockup only, Doubtful existence)

R-77E (Arrival from Russia, doubtful implementation)

Air to Ground

SDB

Sadid 1/345 or Ghaem

Balaban
??

The goal is elimination of manned AF. Given that, the path is:

Drones->wingman/machine-learned->wingman/pre-AI->AI(no human).

Each phase will have MANDATORY operational systems within cost constraints.

 

[Immortals]

How are they going to fit landing gears and internal bays in a 25-30 feet airframe? either they take the wheels out completely under the wings or are they planning to recover the drone with chutes in sea?

They could use the skis/skids approach the smaller Shaheeds have along with the arrestor cables as fail safe.

This Would follow Iranian philosophy of cheap and easy to produce. Or to your point if it’s not a serious project why waste time on a landing gear system.

It also can be skepticism in Iran’s dinosaur leadership about such a project so they greenlight a 50% model for testing then expand to 100% and maybe a 200% manned. (I know I am being optimistic). But I think I remember them saying there are several variants.

Makes sense to start with a 50% carrier based one and see if it’s even worth developing.

 

[Piet]

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Very informative.

Thanks for posting

Piet

 

[Piet]

They could use the skis/skids approach the smaller Shaheeds have along with the arrestor cables as fail safe.

This Would follow Iranian philosophy of cheap and easy to produce. Or to your point if it’s not a serious project why waste time on a landing gear system.

It also can be skepticism in Iran’s dinosaur leadership about such a project so they greenlight a 50% model for testing then expand to 100% and maybe a 200% manned. (I know I am being optimistic). But I think I remember them saying there are several variants.

Makes sense to start with a 50% carrier based one and see if it’s even worth developing.

Regarding the T-O from the mothership I postulate that it could be a combination of the crafts internal propulsion, JATO, and the Ski-Jump. Although I believer that USN pilots are 'hands off ' when being catapulted from their carriers.

Landings will be a combo of arrestor wires, of which three may be seen from up-high images of Shahid Bagheri.

Following which, netting rigged across the deck for salvation landings.

How Skis/skids will work in practice with arrestor wires, is lost on me.

Nonetheless, a measure of AI at least will presumably be involved in these landings.

I could never get my head around an aerial vehicle being parachuted into, and recovered from, the sea. To my mind seawater, oil, and electronics do not mix. Regardless how elaborate and watertight the covering is, nature (seawater in this case) will eventually win out. And usually at the most inappropriate of times.

The other very real danger to such data linked vehicles, is of course enemy EW interference. To this end however refence has to be made to Iranian developments to these ends, such as between ADS' --->higher echelons --->IADS. Also the DD Data Link available for F/A a/c and UAV's.

Very informative.

Thanks for posting

Piet

Piet

 

[Flotilla]

If that is unmanned Qaher, than it is quite small - potentially 50% size of prototype/mock up.

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The internal bay was already quite small on the prototype, a 50% reduction means low payload capability in line with Shahed S-171. A smaller size means that you couldn’t potentially get away with a single J-700 rather than a dual engine configuration.


@Emirzad

IMO a hypothethical naval Qaher cannot fit a Owj class turbojet, the weight It is high that any real carrier landing would break the deck. It should be propulsed by a Jaesh or even a higher powered Toloue as well suggested Emirzad.

Anyway it seems wild unrealistic to talk about a naval version of Qaher. C"mon brothers, how the hell will you test a naval Qaher whenever you didn't test even in a dusty airbase?. We don't have any evidence of a flyable Qaher aside some blurry satellite pictures.

 

[ToddE]

They could use the skis/skids approach the smaller Shaheeds have along with the arrestor cables as fail safe.

This Would follow Iranian philosophy of cheap and easy to produce. Or to your point if it’s not a serious project why waste time on a landing gear system.

It also can be skepticism in Iran’s dinosaur leadership about such a project so they greenlight a 50% model for testing then expand to 100% and maybe a 200% manned. (I know I am being optimistic). But I think I remember them saying there are several variants.

Makes sense to start with a 50% carrier based one and see if it’s even worth developing.

That

 

[Readerdefence]

Hi,
If Russians really have the ball to go against UN resolutions, Iran should get
Asap whatever they can in terms of su
35/30 with R37 type of missiles
And in numbers not like 18/24 should be
Around 4/5 squadrons
And if China agrees for AESA in those SUs
Best bet is through via Russia these radars can be integrated if Russians at the moment don’t have anything to offer
For the love of God, Iranian an at least go
For SU27 with upgrade gadgets as they are lying in abundance in Russia
Thank you