FarhanSiddiqui
Registered Member
It seems that Pakistan is interested in both Shenyang J-35A and TAI TF Kaan. I think 5-6 squadrons of each 5th generation fighters could replace the aging F-16s and early JF-17s.
PAF J-35AE - News, Updates and Discussions
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maverick
Trusted Member
PAF should increase its strength by another 10 squardons
CSAW
Trusted Member
5-6 Squadrons of each [J-35A & KAAN] meaning 12 squadrons of 5th Gen Fighter jets ?
NGAD IS THE BEST
Elite Member
lOL WHERE IS THE $$$ TO BUY 10 SQD OF STEATH JETS, DON'T LIVE IN YOUR FANTASY LAND AND FAIRYTAILS, THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN AT LEAST AFTER 2050 WHEN PAF WILL BECOME FULL STEALTH FORCE, j-10C AND JF-17 AREN'T GOING ANYWHERE UNTIL 2045-2050
Michael
VIP Member
Let me share my personal opinion about the PAF's purchase of the J-35 and the timing of the J-35's arrival at the PAF.
The Pakistani military has a habit of releasing news of new weapons purchases to achieve certain goals, but eventually they are seriously delayed or canceled. Based on historical factors, I have reservations about “J-35 coming soon”. It is entirely possible that this “coming soon” could be 10 or 20 years. Of course, it could also be 3 or 5 years. It is even possible that PAF will not buy the J-35 in the end. in any case, it is an uncertainty.
The news that PAF is going to buy J-35 is already known to the world. So, there is also a lot of news about it, which makes it hard for us to recognize the truth of these news.
In fact, there are some simple methods we can use.
1. Air force base construction. (Usually may be in the core base of PAF)
They include new specialty hangars, new communications facilities, new maintenance facilities ...... And, of course, a new command center, but it's unlikely we'll get any news about it.
If the PAF is set on procuring the J-35, then construction of these new facilities will have begun 2-3 years or more before the J-35 arrives at the PAF. If there is no movement at the airbase at the moment, then the J-35 is unlikely to be “coming soon”.
2. Military information infrastructure modifications.
These include a new generation of military datalinks, a new military satellite communications system, a new ground radar system ......
It is unlikely that we know the details of this part, but we can analyze them through some non-direct news.
These are all must-haves for the 5th Gen fighter and they need to be ready before the J-35 arrives.
Google earth's satellite imagery has a history back feature. We can look at satellite images of certain Air Force bases at various times before and after the acquisition of 5th Gen fighters. This will allow us to learn a lot.
The Pakistani military has a habit of releasing news of new weapons purchases to achieve certain goals, but eventually they are seriously delayed or canceled. Based on historical factors, I have reservations about “J-35 coming soon”. It is entirely possible that this “coming soon” could be 10 or 20 years. Of course, it could also be 3 or 5 years. It is even possible that PAF will not buy the J-35 in the end. in any case, it is an uncertainty.
The news that PAF is going to buy J-35 is already known to the world. So, there is also a lot of news about it, which makes it hard for us to recognize the truth of these news.
In fact, there are some simple methods we can use.
1. Air force base construction. (Usually may be in the core base of PAF)
They include new specialty hangars, new communications facilities, new maintenance facilities ...... And, of course, a new command center, but it's unlikely we'll get any news about it.
If the PAF is set on procuring the J-35, then construction of these new facilities will have begun 2-3 years or more before the J-35 arrives at the PAF. If there is no movement at the airbase at the moment, then the J-35 is unlikely to be “coming soon”.
2. Military information infrastructure modifications.
These include a new generation of military datalinks, a new military satellite communications system, a new ground radar system ......
It is unlikely that we know the details of this part, but we can analyze them through some non-direct news.
These are all must-haves for the 5th Gen fighter and they need to be ready before the J-35 arrives.
Google earth's satellite imagery has a history back feature. We can look at satellite images of certain Air Force bases at various times before and after the acquisition of 5th Gen fighters. This will allow us to learn a lot.
CSAW
Trusted Member
For my understanding - you have an issue with
- Time Lines [Only unofficial rumoured such as 2026 etc as No official timelines have been given]?
- J-35A being exported to Pakistan as a whole and announcement being false ?
Faithfulguy
Elite Member
He is saying that if the planes are coming. The supporting infrastructure should start construction two years prior.
CSAW
Trusted Member
On a Lighter note and with advance apology - Thanks for being 'faithful' as your call sign suggests by answering on his behalf.
---------------------------------
Moving on and my 2 cents
So if the infrastructure work begins in 2025 , planes could arrive in 2027. Then there is only a debate over time lines.
Or He questions the Deal itself ?
Defense deals are shrouded in layers of Negotiations, Agreements, Packages , leaks and uncertainties. We mostly have access to open media news . Rarely one could see a published MOU etc of fighter jets. J-10 order rumours circulated for years but nothing official came from PAF untill a minister was used to Leak the subject.
I may be wrong but i feel the recent criticism and asceticism crossing a certain threshold in last few pages which for my understanding should rightly challenge the 2026 timelines which are non official rather than the PAF announcement itself. Its better to quote credible sources when sharing a news yet the view points are not to be completely shrugged off.
PAF is 'generally good at acquisition' under limited budgets and sanctions
- Not so in developing a private sector Led Eco System including University Programs, Design etc etc ala China or even Turkiye. So is India...!
Dec 2026 is not that far for people who claim the deadline. For others Lets see what transpires
Thanks
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Michael
VIP Member
Faithfulguy explains part of my point, but is incomplete.
Frankly, I don't doubt that PAF will get the J-35, but I don't think PAF will get a “real 5th Gen fighter” within 10 years. This is the biggest problem faced by AVIC in exporting the J-35.
The 5th Gen fighter is part of an entirely new combat system. The price of the fighter jet itself is only a very small part of it; the complete new generation of combat systems is a huge expense.
Currently, only the F-35 is being exported worldwide. However, all the countries that get the F-35 are themselves deeply tied to the US military. Their information systems and combat systems are fully connected to the U.S. military combat command system. Therefore, when they acquire the F-35, they only have a limited right of use, not ownership. When they use the F-35, the F-35 is automatically connected to the U.S. military combat command system and shares the U.S. military information system. Only in this way can the functions of the F-35 be realized.
According to public news, PLA's tactical information command system is very advanced.J-35 is highly integrated with this tactical information command system. If China opens its use to other countries, it will lead to serious leakage. If China does not open up the system, these exported J-35s will not be able to fully utilize their tactical capabilities. At the same time, China has no desire to build an international military alliance at this stage.
These new generation information systems are very expensive and it is not an expense that other countries can afford.
So, I think it is indeed possible that Pakistan is currently in communication with China on the issue. But it's very difficult for them to make any real progress. it's very difficult for PAF to accept the J-35 in a reduced configuration, but it's totally incapable of building a new generation of tactical information command system. I wouldn't be surprised if PAF eventually gives up on the J-35 and instead works with Turkey on the KAAN. Of course, if PAF is willing to accept a reduced configuration J-35, then it may be able to acquire the J-35 in a shorter period of time.
Objectively speaking, the KAAN program is better suited for the PAF if it ends up in successful mass production. until AVIC comes up with a new J-35 solution, it's not a good fit for the PAF.------For one reason, it's too expensive!
maverick
Trusted Member
I’ve heard these statements Time and again I vividly remember when they were talks of buying J10C And Jf17, Pakistan does not have any money in person still they did it.
I don’t buy these stupid ass statements anymore. They have shown the resolve divide top tier weapons without money and they will do it again
NGAD IS THE BEST
Elite Member
lol stupid is your claim that J-35 sqd induction will occur in Dec 2026 lol, andd who is your source in PAF peon or janitor in PAF? top secret/classified project personals won't share any sensitive information of the project to the common and ordinary and aboard citizens of Pakistan like you lol, and there are no infrastructure to support J-35 in PAF, we need to modify and built infra to support J-35. and last we are not in a hurry to buy stealth jet because there is no immanent threats from our enemy (India) that will have stealth jets anytime soon, so your claim of induction of J-35 in Dec-2026 is ridiculous and absurd lol
and your nonsense about $$$ no launch is free in the world we have to pay soon then later, with the crippling economy of the country we have to pay either on soft loans by China and for KAAN i don't know how we will pay for super expensive KAAN
and even USAF/PLAAF/Ru air force will not become full stealth force by 2050-60, so it's highly unlikely that PAF will become full stealth force in our life time
niubi
Registered Member
PLAAF and PLAN will keep Shenyang's J-35 land based and carrier version production lines busy for a while... until SAC facilities are ready to build J-50.
Could PAF to be receiving J-35 before or during China's own military branches? SAC would also need to take time to develop a J-35E for export. There's no way they have the time and resources to spare for a relatively lower priority of developing an export version. J-10CE didn't come out until like half a decade after J-10C. There's also zero chance China would sell its own version. That's never been true before when China's military aviation was far behind the west and unlikely to be true for a 5th gen fighter even in a world of 5th gen proliferation now, there are still only five models of 5th gens in service... with KF-21 (I'm gonna call it one despite no IWB for sake of argument) and Turkey's TFX Kaan.
Not only this but there's little threat to stability in the region unless Pakistan has desires to go on offensive. There's no urgent need for PAF to field 5th gen fighters. Block 3 and J-10CE in numbers can balance out 36 Rafales. China wants to have as many J-35s in PLAN and PLAAF service as quickly as possible so training can start.
Previously I've considered J-31/FC-31 to be export oriented only with possible naval version for PLAN since carriers can fit more of them. Seems PLAAF is also interested in J-35A serving as a smaller lower tiered fighter to accompany J-20. J-20 production is hitting around 140/year based on credible sources. J-35 is said to be ordered in numbers as numerous as J-20 until 6th gen is ready for production. This means PLAAF's second highest tier fighter and PLAN's highest tier manned fighter is not likely for export unless China and Pakistan have some other mutual understanding or strategy. It just doesn't make geopolitical sense to me for China to prioritise PAF in any way until 6th gens are nearly ready for production to take the "highest tier" fighter crown from the J-20s and J-35s.
Yes J-35 internal bays can only carry 4 BVR missiles. Most likely PL-15 regular types are fine. There is a thinner version of PL-15 designed specifically for 5th gen internal carry so J-20 can carry 6 of those. J-20 can only carry four PL-15 standard types and due to fins, also only four PL-12 most likely. But specific finless or folding fin versions of PL-15 have been produced. J-35 however has a narrower bay than J-20 and may still be able to carry only four PL-15 finless/folding fin.
This is on top of not having side bays for WVR missiles. J-20 can carry 6 BVR (finless/folding type) and 2 WVR while J-35 can only carry 4 BVR (possibly up to 6 BVR finless/folding type).
Carrying externally is pointless since may as well have bought a J-16 to the fight... okay not to that extreme RCS increase but still... takes away the whole point of VLO.
Yet another reason why China would want to field as many J-35s as possible as fast as possible before prioritising PAF and an export version.
Having said that. F-35 only carries 4 BVR missiles too. Without talking about newer "micro missiles", 4 BVR for a stealth fighter isn't bad. I mean it's able to sneak in close enough to any 4th gen for first launch and well within NEZ of its BVR missile. Tandem fire BVR missiles well within NEZ without being detected by the 4th gen means each sorties takes out two 4th gens. Completely unrealistic oversimplification of air combat which almost would never look like this but you get the point. Each BVR missile on a 5th gen is much more dangerous than the same BVR missile on a 4th gen.
Could PAF to be receiving J-35 before or during China's own military branches? SAC would also need to take time to develop a J-35E for export. There's no way they have the time and resources to spare for a relatively lower priority of developing an export version. J-10CE didn't come out until like half a decade after J-10C. There's also zero chance China would sell its own version. That's never been true before when China's military aviation was far behind the west and unlikely to be true for a 5th gen fighter even in a world of 5th gen proliferation now, there are still only five models of 5th gens in service... with KF-21 (I'm gonna call it one despite no IWB for sake of argument) and Turkey's TFX Kaan.
Not only this but there's little threat to stability in the region unless Pakistan has desires to go on offensive. There's no urgent need for PAF to field 5th gen fighters. Block 3 and J-10CE in numbers can balance out 36 Rafales. China wants to have as many J-35s in PLAN and PLAAF service as quickly as possible so training can start.
Previously I've considered J-31/FC-31 to be export oriented only with possible naval version for PLAN since carriers can fit more of them. Seems PLAAF is also interested in J-35A serving as a smaller lower tiered fighter to accompany J-20. J-20 production is hitting around 140/year based on credible sources. J-35 is said to be ordered in numbers as numerous as J-20 until 6th gen is ready for production. This means PLAAF's second highest tier fighter and PLAN's highest tier manned fighter is not likely for export unless China and Pakistan have some other mutual understanding or strategy. It just doesn't make geopolitical sense to me for China to prioritise PAF in any way until 6th gens are nearly ready for production to take the "highest tier" fighter crown from the J-20s and J-35s.
Yes J-35 internal bays can only carry 4 BVR missiles. Most likely PL-15 regular types are fine. There is a thinner version of PL-15 designed specifically for 5th gen internal carry so J-20 can carry 6 of those. J-20 can only carry four PL-15 standard types and due to fins, also only four PL-12 most likely. But specific finless or folding fin versions of PL-15 have been produced. J-35 however has a narrower bay than J-20 and may still be able to carry only four PL-15 finless/folding fin.
This is on top of not having side bays for WVR missiles. J-20 can carry 6 BVR (finless/folding type) and 2 WVR while J-35 can only carry 4 BVR (possibly up to 6 BVR finless/folding type).
Carrying externally is pointless since may as well have bought a J-16 to the fight... okay not to that extreme RCS increase but still... takes away the whole point of VLO.
Yet another reason why China would want to field as many J-35s as possible as fast as possible before prioritising PAF and an export version.
Having said that. F-35 only carries 4 BVR missiles too. Without talking about newer "micro missiles", 4 BVR for a stealth fighter isn't bad. I mean it's able to sneak in close enough to any 4th gen for first launch and well within NEZ of its BVR missile. Tandem fire BVR missiles well within NEZ without being detected by the 4th gen means each sorties takes out two 4th gens. Completely unrealistic oversimplification of air combat which almost would never look like this but you get the point. Each BVR missile on a 5th gen is much more dangerous than the same BVR missile on a 4th gen.
SiliconBit (silicon0000)
Trusted Member
Dear I think i told you earlier too that i said 2028-30 right from the start. Not 2030-32.
CSAW
Trusted Member
==================
Thanks for Clarity.
My Last Post on subject while trying to deflect forum from Dec 2026 to the capabilities etc
Lets rewind in midst of this frenzy almost an year ago - QUWA
"On 03 January 2024, the Pakistan Air Force’s (PAF) Chief of Air Staff (CAS), Air Chief Marshal Zaheer Ahmed Baber Sidhu, announced that the PAF will be acquiring the J-31/FC-31 Stealth Fighter.
In an official press release, the PAF stated, “The foundation for acquiring the J-31 stealth fighter aircraft has already been laid, which is all set to become part of the PAF’s fleet in the near future.”
- No Details
- No mention of 5th Generation says Stealth
- No light on engine
- Numbers ?
- Delivery Batches or Time Lines ?
- Financing arrangements since China can replicate J-10C Financing model - Turkiye Cannot replicate it & a US Engine . Its a big factor if we see J-10C numbers, PFX Etc in pipe line.
- 'Foundation work started' can mean many things - Thats where Training Hoax probably ballooned. Assessing sub systems for integration with existing PAF Assets and finalising specs or upgrades over next 5 - 10 years might have been the referral. This includes not only conducting combat operations from bases owned by international partners, but also operating at relatively austere locations.
.That near future could be 5 years or more .....!
Does PAF need a FULLY FUNCTIONAL TRUE 5TH GEN RIGHT AT THIS POINT Considering IAF Fleet , Delays in engine of Tejas MK-IA , MK-II Beats me , AMCA in 2040 for being operational and a choice for Su-57 or F-35 with S-400 Saga
or J-35AE
better to Jump in during Improvements - I rest my case.
=====================
'
Coming to Tech side - beddown reinforced hangars and supporting facilities, consisting of reinforced concrete facilities, blast resistant steel sliding hangar doors, utilidors (underground utility corridors), complex mechanical and electrical systems, Specialised Cooling system with Li Backup, Robust detailed inspection system & testing before and after flight for Paint, Coating etc, Specilised Ovens & Primers , and a specialized, site-specific Building Management System (BMS). A huge undertaking in itself.
The work has to be completed by following strict security requirements, addressing logistical challenges, and managing multiple subcontractors while coordinating operations on an active military base adjacent to an active flightline. US would like to get some info on Chinese J-35A..
Example - Even though there is no current data on the absorbing capability of the RAM used by J-20. The inner surface of the inlet duct from the start of DSI bump leading to the engine stages and the radar blocker will be coated with a layer of MnZn ferrite RAM. This rule is made due to the fact that it is not possible to evaluate the RCS reduction effect of S-duct inlet without a layer of RAM added
Now i will go back and post only open media news without own views....
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